When will it end?
08-21-2006, 04:10 PM
#1
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
When will it end?
It just seems to me that there are more and more outfitters that are leasing up more and more lands. In my home state of KS. and here in CO., and every where you look. I've seen outfitters offering everything from prairie dog hunts, to coyote hunts, to elk, to antelope, etc. Will the market ever slow down or eventually will hunting really be a rich man's sport only here in the states?
What do you think? Is it going to get worse before it gets better, or is hunting on a slippery slope with no hope of turning around?
In my home state of KS., for instance, farmland prices are going through the roof. Land is selling for prices way beyond the "profitable" line. In other words, farm land that has been culitvated for years, is being sold at a price way beyond what the land can return in crop incomes, so farmers are not buying i. Instead, outfitters, businessmen, and hunters with deep pockets, that want it only for hunting purposes are buying it up. When will it end, or will it?
Is this the situation in your neck of the woods? WIll there be a "price crash" in the future?
I'd like to think that eventually, there will be too many outfitters that not enough hunters/clients, and things will turn around. BUT will it?
Enough of my rant. I just hate what I am seeing. It's not good for the average hunter, who doesn't have "connections" in places to hunt!!
What do you think? Is it going to get worse before it gets better, or is hunting on a slippery slope with no hope of turning around?
In my home state of KS., for instance, farmland prices are going through the roof. Land is selling for prices way beyond the "profitable" line. In other words, farm land that has been culitvated for years, is being sold at a price way beyond what the land can return in crop incomes, so farmers are not buying i. Instead, outfitters, businessmen, and hunters with deep pockets, that want it only for hunting purposes are buying it up. When will it end, or will it?
Is this the situation in your neck of the woods? WIll there be a "price crash" in the future?
I'd like to think that eventually, there will be too many outfitters that not enough hunters/clients, and things will turn around. BUT will it?
Enough of my rant. I just hate what I am seeing. It's not good for the average hunter, who doesn't have "connections" in places to hunt!!
08-21-2006, 04:34 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Moccasin, Montana
Posts: 1,835
RE: When will it end?
Howler I'm sorry to say but no.I don't think there are enough of us free lance hunters to change that.
It's the same here in Montana,land to high,places getting shutdown yearly due to leases.We can not change that unless we get involved at the goverment level,maybe imposing taxes on game animals the same as you would with a natural resorce like timber and oil.I don't know what the awswer is but the way it is going "average joe hunters" will be gone in the next 20 years.
What we could do is impose aWorld wideboycott against outfitters and drive prices down but I dout that many would be in favor of that.
BBJ
It's the same here in Montana,land to high,places getting shutdown yearly due to leases.We can not change that unless we get involved at the goverment level,maybe imposing taxes on game animals the same as you would with a natural resorce like timber and oil.I don't know what the awswer is but the way it is going "average joe hunters" will be gone in the next 20 years.
What we could do is impose aWorld wideboycott against outfitters and drive prices down but I dout that many would be in favor of that.
BBJ
08-21-2006, 04:54 PM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5
RE: When will it end?
I am an average Joe hunter that refuses to pay the prices the
outfitters want. It is ridiculous the price that some are asking.
I hunt public land and if I am not successful than I feel that is
what God has intended. I do not alone go after the kill. I
enjoy the solitude of beingaway from the daily grind.I agree
with the thought of boycotting, but am a realist as far as
thinking it would do any good.
My daughter showed some interest in going this year to spend time with DAD so her and I are traveling to Montana this year. She has me so wrapped around her finger. LOL
outfitters want. It is ridiculous the price that some are asking.
I hunt public land and if I am not successful than I feel that is
what God has intended. I do not alone go after the kill. I
enjoy the solitude of beingaway from the daily grind.I agree
with the thought of boycotting, but am a realist as far as
thinking it would do any good.
My daughter showed some interest in going this year to spend time with DAD so her and I are traveling to Montana this year. She has me so wrapped around her finger. LOL
08-21-2006, 05:45 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
RE: When will it end?
The only reason I have of any "hope", currently, is if ya go down to the "Hunts/Outfitters" forum, and look at the number of posts that have 0 replies to them. This gives me"hope" that the market is growing faster than it can sustain for any length of time, so maybe, just maybe!!! Kind of looks likethe market for high priced/outfitted hunts is out running the growth of number of clients!!
08-22-2006, 07:14 AM
#6
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 138
RE: When will it end?
I am a former KS resident and have seen the same thing happen in Kansas. The best inventment I have made was buying some farm land in Kansas.
It is even worse here in Arkansas.Here ifyou don't personally know a land owner or have relation that owns land, you have to hunt public land. Hunting public land here in Arkansas is much worse than hunting public land in Kansas or Colorado. Plus the deer are not much bigger than my pointer.
In Colorado I have seen tresspass fees double in the last 3 to 4 years. I think land prices are going up because of outfitters/hunters buying land or leases and also because of CD and Savings Accounts interest rates. People would rather buy land than put their money in the bank. Bank interest rates are going up so that may slow down the increase in land prices.
I don't know where it is going to stop. The average hunter is going to have a problem. Thats one reason why I started field trialing.
It is even worse here in Arkansas.Here ifyou don't personally know a land owner or have relation that owns land, you have to hunt public land. Hunting public land here in Arkansas is much worse than hunting public land in Kansas or Colorado. Plus the deer are not much bigger than my pointer.
In Colorado I have seen tresspass fees double in the last 3 to 4 years. I think land prices are going up because of outfitters/hunters buying land or leases and also because of CD and Savings Accounts interest rates. People would rather buy land than put their money in the bank. Bank interest rates are going up so that may slow down the increase in land prices.
I don't know where it is going to stop. The average hunter is going to have a problem. Thats one reason why I started field trialing.
08-22-2006, 08:17 AM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: When will it end?
Its happening everywhere. The bottom line is, THE BOTTOM LINE. As long as there are hunters willing to pay the price, someone will be there to fill the demand. It will get tougher all the time to find places to hunt. More pressure will be put on public land as long as there is public land. As many know, there is talk of selling off public land to get it back on the tax list. Time will tell but I know we have already seen the best of times for hunters.
08-22-2006, 11:31 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: When will it end?
It is inevitable that as the total human population grows, the consumption rate of land for various activities (housing developments, infrastructure,urban sprawl, etc) will ever constrictpotential use for those that want to utlilize "unimproved" land for outdoor purposes.These "non-hunting" uses, imo, threaten hunting opportunitesway more than outfitters, althoughoutfitters may bethe interim probalem until land development takes hold. That's why you got to love those vast tracts of public land in the west and why land-owner cooperation programs--like block management-are so critical to quality access.
Generally, with the continued growth and invasion of humans, things in the natural world will continue to degrade. All we can do is plan well thought out conservation programs and try to enjoy every moment while we're "above ground".
Generally, with the continued growth and invasion of humans, things in the natural world will continue to degrade. All we can do is plan well thought out conservation programs and try to enjoy every moment while we're "above ground".
08-22-2006, 02:35 PM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: When will it end?
I think there are a limited number of rich people who can pay expensive outfitters's fees. I know I'm not contributing to any outfitter's bankrole at present or for the foreseeable future. I have a place that I hunt deer for free in Oklahoma (I live in North Texas). The deer are not big, and the antlers are not big, but this is OK with me. I have gone pronghorn hunting in NE Wyoming and paid what I felt was a modest trespass fee of $200 total for 2 people to hunt for two days on a 1200 acre ranch. The pronghorn bucks do not have big horns here, but again, this is OK with me and we had a good, successful hunt. I'm going elk hunting on public land in the Weminuche Wilderness area in Colorado this October. Again, I'm hunting on my own and not paying any outfitter.
I'm not sure the outfitters are locking up ALL hunting opportunities or only the best 10% of hunting opportunities. If you insist on hunting for trophies -- heads which are well above average -- I can see that you are going to be bumping shoulders with business men who are going to try to lock down the access and try to charge higher prices to the sports they offer to take into these locked down areas. If this is indeed what the hang-up is about, a solution may be to just understand that hunting doesn't have to be about bagging the biggest rack or the biggest horns.
I'm not sure the outfitters are locking up ALL hunting opportunities or only the best 10% of hunting opportunities. If you insist on hunting for trophies -- heads which are well above average -- I can see that you are going to be bumping shoulders with business men who are going to try to lock down the access and try to charge higher prices to the sports they offer to take into these locked down areas. If this is indeed what the hang-up is about, a solution may be to just understand that hunting doesn't have to be about bagging the biggest rack or the biggest horns.
08-22-2006, 06:09 PM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Elizabeth Colo. USA
Posts: 4,413
RE: When will it end?
What a coincidence! I just got my American Hunter/NRA magazine and they have a lengthy article titled, "Will You Be Priced Out", and they cover this topic from one end of the spectrum to the other.
Alsatian, this whole topic isn't about antlers at all. It's about the average Joe hunter having a place to hunt 20, 30, 40 years from now. Just a couple points from the above mentioned article. For those of us that live out "West", 85% of us use public lands while only 32% use public lands in the Midwest. For obvious reasons, since KS. for example, only has about 2% of it's lands that are public owned, 14.1% of Tenn. is public owned, 29.2% of Florida is public owned. So in those states, there is little public land to hunt. Obviously, AK. has the most, but most of it is not very assessable!
Now, they do mention that many states, inclusing KS., have established some sort of "walk-in" program, and these programs are helping open private lands to the public for hunting, which is great. BUT I have seen in KS., where outfitters simply out priced the state, and ended up leasing land from the farmer/rancher that the state had leased to start with.
We can't simply put all the blame on outfitters, I'm not trying to, because there are other factors involved. Such as land develoment that swallowed up a measly 2.2 million acres of land from '92 to '02!! And who knows how much more since!! YIKES!!!!!!!![:'(]
With so little public lands in many states, the health of the "walk-in" programs is of high importance to many hunters. According to this article, "As of May 2006, private-land-access programs have opened 26,799,824 acres to hunters." That's pretty darn amazing to me, and this is the only bright spot that I can see in a lot of hunters futures, and the up and coming hunters future. If you don't live in an area with a high percentage of public lands, things aren't looking too good, BUT there is hope that we all will always have a place to hunt.
Lot's of other stuff in the article, and I find it really not as bad as it may seem. It's just that I am constantly seeing land developed, posted, re-zoned, and it just simply scares the pants right off me sometimes when I wonder how many more years until all my huntin' spots are gone!!
Alsatian, this whole topic isn't about antlers at all. It's about the average Joe hunter having a place to hunt 20, 30, 40 years from now. Just a couple points from the above mentioned article. For those of us that live out "West", 85% of us use public lands while only 32% use public lands in the Midwest. For obvious reasons, since KS. for example, only has about 2% of it's lands that are public owned, 14.1% of Tenn. is public owned, 29.2% of Florida is public owned. So in those states, there is little public land to hunt. Obviously, AK. has the most, but most of it is not very assessable!
Now, they do mention that many states, inclusing KS., have established some sort of "walk-in" program, and these programs are helping open private lands to the public for hunting, which is great. BUT I have seen in KS., where outfitters simply out priced the state, and ended up leasing land from the farmer/rancher that the state had leased to start with.
We can't simply put all the blame on outfitters, I'm not trying to, because there are other factors involved. Such as land develoment that swallowed up a measly 2.2 million acres of land from '92 to '02!! And who knows how much more since!! YIKES!!!!!!!![:'(]
With so little public lands in many states, the health of the "walk-in" programs is of high importance to many hunters. According to this article, "As of May 2006, private-land-access programs have opened 26,799,824 acres to hunters." That's pretty darn amazing to me, and this is the only bright spot that I can see in a lot of hunters futures, and the up and coming hunters future. If you don't live in an area with a high percentage of public lands, things aren't looking too good, BUT there is hope that we all will always have a place to hunt.
Lot's of other stuff in the article, and I find it really not as bad as it may seem. It's just that I am constantly seeing land developed, posted, re-zoned, and it just simply scares the pants right off me sometimes when I wonder how many more years until all my huntin' spots are gone!!