.308 Win
 

Is the .308 win sufficiant for elk? I was thinking that it would be IF used with premium bullets. From what I understand it is pretty much the same as a 30-06. I am not trying to start any fights here just wanting to know what you guys think. Thanks.
Rob

RE: .308 Win
 

If you really wanted to you could kill an elk with a .22, so a .308 will work fine. People I hunt with have killed several elk with the 7mm/08 (.308 necked down for 7mm bullets) using plain jane 140 gr. Winchester Super X ammo. And most of the guys I hunt with have used .270's and 30-06's with cheap 150gr bullets for over 30 years and killed elk almost every year with no probelms. I also know people who have killed elk using a .243. Just place your shots in the kill zone. Regardless of how big of a gun you're using, if you make a bad shot the elk won't go down.

RE: .308 Win
 

Elk can travel even with a well placed shot huh WTG.
If .308 is all you got, just try and stay within' a couple hundred yards or closer. Wapiti can be a nightmare to track. First some blood, then no blood, then no tracks. (Hope there's a little snow).
Bam, you've made cayote bait. That's my main reason to use bigger calibers, so you don't have to chase, and potentially lose, that trophy you went so far for and spent so much money on.

RE: .308 Win
 

I've used a 308 for several elk kills. All were basically short range in timber. Depending on the situation, a 308 could be fine. As already stated you will need to discipline yourself to reasonable ranges.

If the hunt is a one time deal and you shoot the gun well I would use it. If you're looking for a long-term go-to elk gun you might look at another weapon. Especially if you are hunting open country where that far away bull will be awfully tempting. If that is the situation you'd be better off looking for something else now. My two cents.

RE: .308 Win
 

there is a great artical in these months handloader magazine about the 308 WIN says hows great it is and thats its a 350 yard elk caliber...... and its my favorite caliber also,just order one in a browning a-bolt composite stalker gonna use it for my moose and deer...... heres a moose my unkle took this year with his 308 remington model 7400

RE: .308 Win
 

Caliber is in the eye of the beholder!!!

No matter the caliber, there are stipulations, rules and logistics that must be obeyed in order to make an "ethical and efficient" harvest. As long as you realize that the list of those observed restrictions is longer as you travel down the caliber ladder. That is to say that as the caliber and gun size increase, you have greater opportunity in the field. But with that comes greater responsibility! As many have stated here, some think that because they are using a big gun they can accomplish unbelievable feats of marksmanship.

My advice........spend an adequate time on gun and caliber but don't get overlycaught up in it. Spend more time learning to get"in amongst them"!!! The better you are at that, the less important the gunbecomes!

RE: .308 Win
 

Red River Hntr,

That is one of the best summaries of caliber/cartridge efficiency I have ever read! Thanks for posting. Others would value from a long hard look at your advice.

RE: .308 Win
 

With the right bullet, the 308 will retain 1688 LB of ME at 300 yards 1444 Lb ME at 400 yards. Thats enough power for elk if shot placement is good. In the end thats what takes game.

RE: .308 Win
 

Worth repeating the above. One issue I've seen with two friends who shoot magnums (I shoot a 30-06): they admit to thinking about the recoil - and I think it affects their marksmanship. Therefore, something to think about: a .308 or 30-06 (or even a .270 for that matter) have plenty of power at pretty darn good ranges. And, they are mild enough so that it's reasonable to expect a steady aim and no flinch. The range difference with a magnum is worthless if a tiny flinch throws you off 2 feet at that range.

RE: .308 Win
 

Good Grief!! The common sense is starting to bleed through!!!!:D

RE: .308 Win
 

Amazing isn't it James.;)

The .308 is as good an elk cartridge as most. Thousands upon thousands of elk have fallen to the .308 and similar cartridges. I have use a .270 and 7mm Rem mag and the dead elk never knew the differance between the two.

I recently purchased a .338 ultra mag to hunt with. Did I need it? Heck no as any of the standard cartridges I have will do everything I will ask of the .338. I just wanted one............ Actually I wanted a .338 Lapua but it costs way too much for me to shoot so the .338 ultra was the next best thing. ;)

The bottom line is you still gotta put the bullet into the vitals regardless of what cartridge you use.

RE: .308 Win
 

I've never, ever, not once thought about recoil when I am bearing down on a big game animal with the intent to kill, no matter what I'm shooting. I do notfeel thekick or even really hear theshot. All my focus goes into the kill, I only really know the gun has went off because the picture in the scope jumps, meaning it is time to jack in another round and immediately repeat if needed. FOCUS! If you are at the rangethen recoil can be managed in other ways.

RE: .308 Win
 

I shoot a 308 for hunting everything including elk, moose, bear and deer. place your shot well and you will have no problem.

RE: .308 Win
 

308 has suffiecient Kinetic energy to kill an elk out to 400 yards. the trick is hitting the vitals at that range. A method that some subscribe to is maximum point blank range. This method takes into account the ballistics of a cartridge and the vital area of the animal you are hunting.

For example: Lets assume that an elk has a vital area approximately 12 inches square (ie 12 inches tall, and 12 inches wide). Lets further assume that you are hunting with a 308 win load with 165 gr bullets(BC .47)at a muzzle velocity of 2600 FPS. Now the maximumheight of the ballistic arch is 6 Inches above line of sight, and the minimum is 6 inches below the line of sight (12 inch vital). With this info we can calculate that the 308 win has a maximum point blank range of approx. 350 yards. The "true zero" would be 290 Yards, +5.2" at 100 yards. That puts the appex of the arc at approx 170 yards (+6 inches), and -6 inches at 345 yards. So in theory if your weapon was sighted in this way you could aim at the center of the vital area and kill an elk from muzzle to 350 yards. Now the trick becomes doping wind drift and of course getting the elk to stand still broadside to you long enough to put it all together.

RE: .308 Win
 

Shoot the 308 enough and hitting the vitals at 400 yards is no harder than with any other rifle. The 385 meter Turkey on the silhouette range is a very small target but you learn where to hold and the 308 will do the rest. Its an accurate and very efficient cartridge. No matter what you shoot, you have to shoot it enough to know its trajectory.

RE: .308 Win
 

When hunting big critters, use the biggest gun you can shoot well! A good hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a 458 mag, and most hunters can handle a 308 pretty well.

RE: .308 Win
 

Okay, you're doing okay, a basic truism.

Arghhh, the old "polar extremes" fallacy.All or nothing, one way or the other.I would say on truly big game a clean miss with ANYTHING is abetter situation than a hit with a .22! (Say a 700# 5x5)

I'd say even mostjuvenilles should be able to handle a .308 pretty well.
Most healthy adult hunters (and younger oneswith attitude)shouldhandle the 375 H&H pretty wellif they are so inclined to learn and chose to apply themselves to that mission. [and avoid 7.5 pound rifles] Americans as a whole live pretty sheltered lives.

BTW .308 will work on elk --- a reasonable starting point within limitations, especially for beginners or non-progressors. Probably not the choice of folks that consistentlywant lots of flexibility in taking their shot opportunities and those who want more consistent anchoring oftheir game.

RE: .308 Win
 

BB. Yes it makes a man wonder. Folks thought they had the world by the but when the 30-40 krag appeared. It took every game animal in NA with no problem at all. There is nothing wrong with progress or just something new. However that does not mean that the older cartridges without much progression will not do the job as well as ever. Hunters with a little skill made hunting with the 30-40 krag and 7x57 Mauser easy and effective.

If a guy can afford a rifle for each and every purpose, let them have at it. I hate however to see a guy with a 308, 270 or 30-06 or 30-40 krag, think they have to purchase a cannon to hunt animals that have fallen to these standard cartridges for decades.

I can see that many do not realize the effectivness of a rifle like the 308 in the hands of ahunter who knows how to use it. If you have a 308, use it and you need not be humbled for it.

RE: .308 Win
 

You havta sit and laugh readin this mag mentality. Im wondering how the pioneers didnt starve to death because they didnt have a gun that would kill anything bigger than a squirrel over 25 yards after listening to some on here. The 45/70 even bounced off the elk over 40 yards.....mass starvation and epidemic in the old west due to hunger. Amazing...they wore em out with everything from blackpowder to 30-30's..and now a 308 is marginal?? Okkkkkkkkkkkk....:D

RE: .308 Win
 

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

RE: .308 Win
 

The .308 is a what I consider a 300 yd elk rifle.It works well and better than some.It's not my choice but it's his choice.I do know 165 BT nock the crap outta jackrabbits.

Now to the recoil,if eveyone would go out and buy some panties,and a 5lb bag of sugar,put the panties on and stuff the sugar in their back pocket I would call you pantywaists and Candya$$es.The recoil is what you make it,in 20 years of hunting I have never heard the shot or felt the recoil of any gun when hunting.You put your crosshairs on the vitals and pull the trigger.Have you ever tried,have you sat down with a instrutor and had them show you how to shoot heavy magnums?

EKM is right sheltered lives.
BBJ

RE: .308 Win
 

I agree with part of your post BBJ. The 308 is a 300-350 yard elk cartridge. That is it retains 1500-1600 lbs ME @ 300-350 yards depending on the bullet used. However on the recoil issue, while nobody will probably feel the recoil of a 300 WM while taking a shot or two or three in field, I Guarentee that many will not set at the bench and take a pounding or practice as much as they should with hard kicking rifles. I am sick to death of hearing thay folks who don't like their brains kicked out and their shoulders bruised are candy a$$'s. It could be that they prefer a little less abuse and use a little more hunting skill so they need not shoot 800 yards at an animal.

I don't mind a little debate and I sure think everone is entitled to their opinion. But if it means name calling and making fun of those who don't see ityour way then those opinions are most likely best left out these discussions. Some people don't like recoil and some of those people are amoung the best hunters that I have ever known. If you can accomplish good clean kills with whatever weapon you choose then what more need be asked.

RE: .308 Win
 

Sigh,

**As a clarification, I did not call anyone sugar arses or panty waists.
(After all, too many women competently handle"non-standard" rifles.)

** 45-70 is a lethal elk rifle at beyond 40 yards! (someone is highly misinformed)
However, the line "...they wore em out with everything from blackpowder to 30-30's...." may have some merit.

** That is what cartridge spacing is for, it only takes 3 to take care of everything from prairie dogs to polar bears, yet how many folks haveaslewof essentially the same thing withno breadth--- tunnel vision inmost cases. IMHO, the first 3 long guns should be a 22LR, a 30-06 equivalent, and a 12 gauge, then take it from there but for God's sake spread them out.

** By "progressors" I don't mean age of cartridge (as in the newest wiz-bang), rather size and power --- many hunters never explore beyond smallbores but know all things about the full range of cartridges by "guessing" what it must be like. (Some of my favorite"progressive rifles"are right up there with the 30-06 for age.)

** The same impact with a bigger (and sometimes faster) bullet will "knock them" harder and anchor them betterthat a little one in the same place. (Breadbasket shots, not CNS shots) If you have used a variety of rifles from small bores on up thru mags and big bores, then you know the difference in the hit. I'm not talking the simplistic "dead is dead" drivel; I'm talking anchoring big game. Any neutral 3rd party that witnesses the difference in hits over a series of animals will see the difference.... 'bout the difference between getting tackled by a junior in high school and a NFL linebacker. Yeah, they both tackled you, and you went down.... difference is with the NFL linebacker getting up and running again is much, much more difficult. [& I am NOT talking deer hunying here.]

** Once the rifle is sighted in, there is little benefit to "blasting away at the bench" IMHO it doesn't make you a better hunter. Some folks may hunt out of bench blinds; however, I have not found any (shooting) benches set up out inelk country. The key is to get out and practice in field positions whichtend to not be as abusive as the bench AND much morebeneficial for preparingfor real deal hunting.

** Transference. You don't have to "blast away" endlessly at the bench or in field practice solely with the rifle you are going to hunt with. With scopes sighted in the same (200 yards in my case [even on the Big Bore types]) the bullets fly pretty much down the same string (especially if you're not going out a long ways). On something the size of an elk, the variance in trajectory is minor compared to the target area. You can have a fun shooting session with a 22LR, a varmit rifle, a cross over rifle, a regular mag, a big bore, and a 12 gauge and some clay pigeons. IMHO, you are sharpening your shooting skills across the board.Big game guidestend to love bird hunters, they can take a shot without taking all day and put it on the money -- now.

It is like"cross training" and it all helps to sharpen you up for the upcoming season and not just for a niche. You might go thru 250 to 300 rounds total in the day, perhaps only 10 with the mag you will use for elk (especially if you had a GOOD 10 rounds). I'll take this well rounded hunter over the one that shoots 30 rounds of "standard caliber elk cartridge Xonly".IMHO the idea of "blasting away boxes of ammo"all with one gun comes largely from the "beware of a man with only one rifle" BS. Show me a man with one rifle and in most cases IMHO he is either very young and/ordon't go far and/or he don't do much variety of rifle hunting.

I'll stand by what I said earlier....

RE: .308 Win
 

Hey James,I just wanted to get under everyones skin.
No please everyone take my reference to Pantywaites and candya$$es as tounge and cheek joking.

I shoot magnums,and cross over rifles for elk,I just like to see the arguments.;)
BBJ