RMEF and wolves
01-27-2006, 10:13 PM
#21
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: WYO
Posts: 2,298
RE: RMEF and wolves
I've been pretty worried about wolves moving into the bighorns too. Since the reintroduction of the wolves I have stopped hunting elk above dubois as have the rest of my family members. I find hunting in the Bighorns and other mountain ranges much more fun because I see a lot more animals since wolves and bears haven't decimated their numbers and I don't have to fight grizzlies off of my kills. I want it to stay that way, but I don't think it will because like Elk Buster said wolves are in the Bighorns now and I know a wolf has been seen around Crook's Mountain too. While I'm living in Sheridan this summer I'll have to carry my 7mag with me on ATV rides and join in on the SS&S
. I don't think there's any other way to preserve the Big Horns if the feds won't turn control over to Wyoming like they should.
. I don't think there's any other way to preserve the Big Horns if the feds won't turn control over to Wyoming like they should.
01-28-2006, 10:09 AM
#22
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: RMEF and wolves
quote;
Heck if you still hate the RMEF, then give your money to other pro-habitate groups like Sierra Club, Earth First, Alliance for the Wild Rockies. See how they view hunting and where your money gets spent there. Can you say LOIYAS!!! quote;
No give it to the NRA. They will and dotake political stances on protecting hunters, hunting, and hunters rights. Without hunters there will be no money to manage and protect game. And with out the right to keep and bear arms you are stuck hunting only with a bow.
There are over 50,000,000 gun owners in the USA and a mere 4,000,000 are dues paying members of the NRA!
Hate is a strong word, dislike and distrust is my choice. There are only so many dollars to go around, mine go to the NRA.
01-28-2006, 04:15 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 813
RE: RMEF and wolves
Good to hear that Elk, at least I know i'm not goin nuts, everyone was doubting my "Wolf Sighting"...& again, it's a real shame that these wolves are taking over the country....Sorry to hear about your experience in the Tetons, I would have been real disappointed. Anyway, keep huntin, keep the beutifull Big Hornsbeutifulland be safe buddy. P.S. I think i'll adopt you SS&S rule.
01-28-2006, 06:48 PM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: RMEF and wolves
Last year at this time my son and myself were lion hunting north of Tensleep. On two different days we found what we thought were wolf tracks. Three sets. When we went back to town we mentioned it to the local Game Warden and he comfirmed there was three in a pack and one single wolf in the Big Horns.
01-31-2006, 04:41 PM
#25
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 813
RE: RMEF and wolves
That's interesting Randy, so did you finally get that cat you were lookin for? & have you seen any bear up in that area? good talking to you & by the way, you've got some of the most amazing country i've ever seen out there.......I can't wait to go back, I drive my wife nuts talking about how much I miss being in Wyoming
....take care.
....take care.
02-03-2006, 09:41 PM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: RMEF and wolves
Yes the dogs caught the cat. It was a medium size female. We never shot it with anything but the camera.
There are pretty good bear populations up there. I have only seen one, but we see tracks, scat, and tree trunks that have been clawed.
There are pretty good bear populations up there. I have only seen one, but we see tracks, scat, and tree trunks that have been clawed.
02-17-2006, 04:36 PM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NW Wyoming
Posts: 312
RE: RMEF and wolves
Thanks RMEF! 
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Gardiner late elk hunt to be cut[/b]
By SCOTT McMILLION, Chronicle Staff Writer
HELENA -- The winter elk hunt in Gardiner will be cut from 1,180 hunters to 148 hunters, mirroring the steady downward spiral of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission decided here Thursday.
The hunt is likely to be discontinued altogether in the future, said Kurt Alt, FWP regional wildlife manager.
"It's probably going to go away," he said.
He cited the heavy density of wolves in and near the park, coupled with other predation, as a reason for cutting the hunt by more than 90 percent by January, 2006.
The northern Yellowstone herd hit a peak of about 19,000 animals in 1994. The next year, wolves were reintroduced and elk have been on a steady decline ever since.
"It's just one more mouth to feed," Alt said of the wolves.
As recently as 2000, FWP offered more than 2,800 tags for the late hunt, which aimed to harvest mostly female elk that migrated out of Yellowstone National Park.
"We expect to observe less than 8,000 elk during this December's count," Alt said. "Wolf lovers will have a hard time accepting that wolves are having such an impact."
He noted that in 1968, when the National Park Service stopped culling elk inside the park, there were about 4,000 elk there. By 1975, the year the late hunt commenced, the number had climbed to 12,000. In those years, there were no wolves, about half as many grizzly bears as there are today, and a lot fewer lions, Alt noted.
He said that, with the abundance of predators in and near the park, he fears that "one bad winter" could drop the elk herd to the 1968 level and the smaller herd would then face all those predators.
Critics of wolf reintroduction have pointed to reduced elk numbers for years and blamed wolves for them.
Now it turns out they're right, at least partly.
Recent studies in Yellowstone have shown that 70 percent of elk calves die from predators by the end of September of their first year.
Bears, both black and grizzly, account for about 60 percent of the calves that die in the first few weeks of their lives in the jaws of predators. After the calves become more mobile, wolves begin killing more of them and bears kill fewer, the studies show.
Springtime counts over the last three years have shown that between 12 and 14 calves per hundred cows have remained alive through the first year of their life.
A calf/cow ratio of about 20 is needed for a herd to sustain itself, Alt told the commission.
FWP commission chairman Dan Walker asked him if he expected to see that level reached within the next 10 years. Alt said "no."
The commission also approved Montana's statewide elk plan, which focuses on ways for people to harvest more elk, if necessary. Unlike the area just north of the park, most elk hunting districts in the state contain more elk than guidelines call for, leading to landowner complaints.
It's possible that some districts could be limited to antlerless elk only, in efforts to reduce populations.
Alt said he is not concerned about wolves causing similar big drops in elk numbers in other parts of the state.
It hasn't happened in northwest Montana, he said, or along the Rocky Mountain Front, where wolves have lived for years.
Wolves will continue to spread out from the park, but a significant number will get get in trouble with livestock and likely will be killed, Alt said.
"Whether they are listed (by the Endangered Species Act) or not, wolves will be managed on landscapes where people live and work," he said.
FWP is taking over many wolf management duties from the federal government.
Once delisted -- a step that could be years away -- Montana hopes to install limited hunting and trapping seasons for wolves, he said.
[/b][/b]
[/b]
Gardiner late elk hunt to be cut[/b]
By SCOTT McMILLION, Chronicle Staff Writer
HELENA -- The winter elk hunt in Gardiner will be cut from 1,180 hunters to 148 hunters, mirroring the steady downward spiral of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks Commission decided here Thursday.
The hunt is likely to be discontinued altogether in the future, said Kurt Alt, FWP regional wildlife manager.
"It's probably going to go away," he said.
He cited the heavy density of wolves in and near the park, coupled with other predation, as a reason for cutting the hunt by more than 90 percent by January, 2006.
The northern Yellowstone herd hit a peak of about 19,000 animals in 1994. The next year, wolves were reintroduced and elk have been on a steady decline ever since.
"It's just one more mouth to feed," Alt said of the wolves.
As recently as 2000, FWP offered more than 2,800 tags for the late hunt, which aimed to harvest mostly female elk that migrated out of Yellowstone National Park.
"We expect to observe less than 8,000 elk during this December's count," Alt said. "Wolf lovers will have a hard time accepting that wolves are having such an impact."
He noted that in 1968, when the National Park Service stopped culling elk inside the park, there were about 4,000 elk there. By 1975, the year the late hunt commenced, the number had climbed to 12,000. In those years, there were no wolves, about half as many grizzly bears as there are today, and a lot fewer lions, Alt noted.
He said that, with the abundance of predators in and near the park, he fears that "one bad winter" could drop the elk herd to the 1968 level and the smaller herd would then face all those predators.
Critics of wolf reintroduction have pointed to reduced elk numbers for years and blamed wolves for them.
Now it turns out they're right, at least partly.
Recent studies in Yellowstone have shown that 70 percent of elk calves die from predators by the end of September of their first year.
Bears, both black and grizzly, account for about 60 percent of the calves that die in the first few weeks of their lives in the jaws of predators. After the calves become more mobile, wolves begin killing more of them and bears kill fewer, the studies show.
Springtime counts over the last three years have shown that between 12 and 14 calves per hundred cows have remained alive through the first year of their life.
A calf/cow ratio of about 20 is needed for a herd to sustain itself, Alt told the commission.
FWP commission chairman Dan Walker asked him if he expected to see that level reached within the next 10 years. Alt said "no."
The commission also approved Montana's statewide elk plan, which focuses on ways for people to harvest more elk, if necessary. Unlike the area just north of the park, most elk hunting districts in the state contain more elk than guidelines call for, leading to landowner complaints.
It's possible that some districts could be limited to antlerless elk only, in efforts to reduce populations.
Alt said he is not concerned about wolves causing similar big drops in elk numbers in other parts of the state.
It hasn't happened in northwest Montana, he said, or along the Rocky Mountain Front, where wolves have lived for years.
Wolves will continue to spread out from the park, but a significant number will get get in trouble with livestock and likely will be killed, Alt said.
"Whether they are listed (by the Endangered Species Act) or not, wolves will be managed on landscapes where people live and work," he said.
FWP is taking over many wolf management duties from the federal government.
Once delisted -- a step that could be years away -- Montana hopes to install limited hunting and trapping seasons for wolves, he said.
02-17-2006, 04:57 PM
#28
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: WYO
Posts: 2,298
RE: RMEF and wolves
ARGGGGGG[:@]!!!!! These kind of articles always make my blood boil after I read them. Simply saying "we told you so" to the feds and wolf lovers doesn't quiet seem adequet. It was no secret that the Yellowstone elk herd was going to be wiped out by wolves when we were trying to stop the reintroduction process in the 90's. All you had to do to see what effect the wolves were going to have was look back in history and see what happened to Alaska's game animals when wolves became protected up there. After entire herds of Dahl sheep and other animals were nearly wiped out the feds finally had to use citizens' tax money to hire proffessionals to shoot the wolves out of airplanes. At the current rate that the wolves are wiping out Yellowstone's elk, it might be only a matter of time until our tax money is used to fix a problem that we tried to fix for free long before it arose. Sound familiar?!?! Oh yeah, the same thing happened when they helped wolves make a comeback in Alaska! Who'd a thunk it?
02-18-2006, 08:04 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MN USA
Posts: 1,392
RE: RMEF and wolves
Garminator said, "I think the fed govt has got to step in and do something about regulating the wolf population."
Respectfully, the reason we have problems with Timber wolves (Gray) is that the federal gov't did step in and did something about regulating the wolf pop. In 1973 the federal gov't put the Timber wolf on the endangered species list.
People out West are just starting to see the results of these good intensions gone crazy.
In the lower 48, I think without a doubt Minnesota still has the largest pop. of wolves. For over 30 years people in the northern 1/3 of the state in particular have had to deal with an over pop. of this predator. Whitetail pop. in heavy snow years (e.g. 95, 96) have taken enormous swings down.
Near the shore of Lake Superior the deer pop. held up a little better. But inland it took a decade after those years when wolves were killing the deer herds and most of them weren't eaten except for the prime parts by the wolves.
Wolves like any large predator have their place in the whole system. But so does man/(woman) to help keep those predators including the wolves in check. Beyond a certain pop. level, the wolf is a destructive force. If left go too far, it'll cause its own pop. to drop significantly when the man prey animals are killed off or at least to a point that the predators can't be sustained.
MN has tried to get a wolf pop. plan in place, so that limited hunting/trapping can be done in high pop. areas like NE MN. However, each time the greenie weenies scream and bawl and carry on like someone is talking about hunting their mothers! Of course many of them think the Earth in their mom, so how do you have a rational discussion with people like that or politicians in Wash. DC or states' capitols where many of them wouldn't know a wolf from Lassie or a deer from a character in a Disney movie.
I hope you folks out West have more success talking sense into your state leaders to push for limits on large predators like Gray wolf and Grizzlies than we have had in MN on the former. Good luck!
Respectfully, the reason we have problems with Timber wolves (Gray) is that the federal gov't did step in and did something about regulating the wolf pop. In 1973 the federal gov't put the Timber wolf on the endangered species list.
People out West are just starting to see the results of these good intensions gone crazy.
In the lower 48, I think without a doubt Minnesota still has the largest pop. of wolves. For over 30 years people in the northern 1/3 of the state in particular have had to deal with an over pop. of this predator. Whitetail pop. in heavy snow years (e.g. 95, 96) have taken enormous swings down.
Near the shore of Lake Superior the deer pop. held up a little better. But inland it took a decade after those years when wolves were killing the deer herds and most of them weren't eaten except for the prime parts by the wolves.
Wolves like any large predator have their place in the whole system. But so does man/(woman) to help keep those predators including the wolves in check. Beyond a certain pop. level, the wolf is a destructive force. If left go too far, it'll cause its own pop. to drop significantly when the man prey animals are killed off or at least to a point that the predators can't be sustained.
MN has tried to get a wolf pop. plan in place, so that limited hunting/trapping can be done in high pop. areas like NE MN. However, each time the greenie weenies scream and bawl and carry on like someone is talking about hunting their mothers! Of course many of them think the Earth in their mom, so how do you have a rational discussion with people like that or politicians in Wash. DC or states' capitols where many of them wouldn't know a wolf from Lassie or a deer from a character in a Disney movie.
I hope you folks out West have more success talking sense into your state leaders to push for limits on large predators like Gray wolf and Grizzlies than we have had in MN on the former. Good luck!