manboy

o.k. what arrow wt. should be for elk hunting. i shoot a mathews legacy at 67 lbs. i would like to know what everyone here thinks about 382 grain arrows? to light or just right? and please tell us why!

HuntElk4Fun

When you talk about arrow weight for the species, you've got to also talk speed, thus kinetic energy. The ol' physics lesson, mass + speed = energy. I've seen all sorts of numbers on KE for Elk and I think 50 ft lbs is common. I personally feel that when it comes to KE, for elk anyway, more than 50is better.

I've always thought an arrow around 400 grains was a great size for plenty of energy and good flight. This is just my preference and I'm sure everyone has their own too. Let's face it, the heavier the arrow, the less flat it is, plus heavy arrows are usually longer and we are all trying to shorten em up. It's a line and game people can play for years. I like 400 and here's some figures to show your arrow vs. mine (428 grains). I'll use 260 fps and 280 fps just for math sake. Some good round normal numbers from today's bows. IBO's aren't hunting FPS.

382 grains
260 - 57.35 ft lbs
280 - 66.52 ft lbs

428 grains
260 - 64.26 ft lbs
280 - 74.53 ft lbs

elknut1

I personally like a little heavier combo. In Idaho 400grn of total arrow wt. is required. I like the combo of heavy arrows & razor sharp Cut On Contact heads like Stingers, Silver Flames, and the likes. I'm not into speed, I want through the bone power, & this setup delivers that.This years setup is 545 grn of total wt. That includes the 150grn broadhead at aprox. 223fps, that gives me aprox. 60lbs of KE. It's something for me to go by! My arrows are 27" at 70lbs--28" draw. You can shoot heavy carbons without a long arrow!!

Now we've taken plenty of elkwith lighter setups, & they'll work fine as long as you hit him where he lives!! Sometimes in order to do that you must get through Stuff, and some of that stuff is tough, like bone!! I like to know I can handle any reasonabdle situation, & some not so reasonable, not just the perfect broadside shot!!!-----Good Luck---ElkNut1

manboy

don't want ruffle any feathers here but, i think 64.76 ft lbs of energy, is bone crushing power.and i still only have a few inches of drop,because i shoot 276 f.p.s.
this is why i asked this ? why is it people still believe u have to shoot a 500 gr. arrow to get good energy? with todays bows u can get speed and energy, so why shoot 220 fps when u could shoot 270 and get the same k.e.? help me understand

huntnmuleys

speed doesnt kill, accuracy does. generally, the faster bows are not as forgiving. not as bad as it used to be, but those shorter axle to axle hot rods will never be as forgiving as longer bows, just a fact. plus, often speed equals louder. the quietest bows i know of dont shoot 300 fps......

plus manboy, in your case you should be looking for a more forgiving bow. you cant shoot a lick

manboy

i am glad someone mentioned that speed isn't accurracy! tell that to CHRIS WHITE! who is he? he just set a new record! fita double 70 meter world record. what kind of bow did he use ????
a MATHEWS SWITCHBACK! THE NEW FAST 318 FPS BOW!
NOT THE OLD 230 fps P.S.E. BOWS!
NOBODY WILL EVER CONVINCE ME THAT U CAN'T BE FAST AND HAVE ACCURACY!

Elkcrazy8

I am shooting a 520 grain arrow at 257 feet per second. This setup generates 76 foot pounds of energy. I could shoot my other set-up which is a 404 grain arrow at 287 ft per second, which generates 74 foot pounds.

The reason I choose to shoot the heavier arrow for elkis not only because of higher energy, but also because I like to stay in the 250 fps range so that I get the most forgiveness out of my set up and pretty much eliminate any chance of planing. When I am shooting from kneeling positions, sitting or bending, while trying to take a bull, I want my equipment to be the least critical it can be. Most of the elk are taken under 20 yards so a flat shooting setup for me is not in high demand.

Broadhead selection to me is far more important than arrow weight. A 400 grain arrow with a COC will out penetrate a 520 grain arrow without COC.

I opt to go with the heavier arrow for both forgiveness, and higher KE,and tipped with a COC broadhead for maximum penetration. This year I went to the razorcaps 3 blade COC so I can get an extra wound channel to maximize the bloodtrail after the hit. I will sacrifice a little penetration, but it shouldn't show when producing such a high KE

I shoot a different setup for white-tail and skittish antelope that is faster and flatter, because of my experience with string jump. But with elk, I will pick the slower forgiving setup every time.

Trying to reduce the arrow length IMO is counter productive. As the arrow shortens, the FOC will be placed further back on the shaft. I like to keep my arrows at around the 12-14 mark for broadhead flight. I also like to keep the broadhead in front of my hand. So going with a slightly longer arrow, will help keep my FOC up and also keep my hand safely behind the broadhead.

I have a range finder with me all the time, when setting up on an elk, I will range certain objects.I have a 20 and a 30 yard pin and can stack pins for 40 which is my absolute maximum range shot. I have yet to do it, but could with great success if the situation would arise. With a range finder the speed of a setup should not matter.

In the instance that my range finder craps the bed on a hunt. I am still practiced enough at yardage judging from competitive 3-D, that I can still guess within a yard all the way to my max of 40 yards. I still will use the range finder though as confindence is 1/3 of making the shot and I like elk meat.

Manboy, I would like to point out that that record was not shot with broadheads, which throws a whole new light on the subject. Also, not everyone is Chris White. If you want to talk about records, lets look at Randy Ulmer, Tery Ragsdale, Dave Cousins, and Micheal Braden. They all shoot long ATA bows and long brace height bows. Yes it can be done with shorter faster ATA bows, but we all don't shoot like a machine either.

I will stick with my slower setups for both hunting and 3-D. Going with more forgiving setups has improved my shooting greatly. I switched to a longer ATA and longer brace height this year, and won more tournaments this year than the last 5 combined. No one will every convince me that faster and shorter is the way to go for me.

manboy

elkcrazy, u finally made some light on the subject. forgiveness, and or make it easier to hold a for a good shot when the nerves are challeged. i don't see the differance u shooting 2 k.e. more on a slow arrow would make, other than more drop? accuracy under HUNTING conditions is what u are trying to say? like last year i hunted with a guy who had his bow set at 80 lbs,[:-] he could barely pull it! no wonder i never say him pull it back at game! if u want to be accurate u need to pratice, i also think your set up should be ??? whatever YOU shoot best! because in the end you make the kill or the wound! just my .02

Elkcrazy8

Manboy, I did a little study last year as I shoot ALOT of competitive archery. I was tossing around the idea of the benefits of shooting 300 fps as opposed to 285 fps. I felt that I would be able to gain points by having what I thought was a flatter shooting bow. I used my sight settings for the 285 and jumped to 300 fps by dropping my arrow weight. I thought right away that I found the answer. My 20 yard pin was hitting high. Bingo, question answered. Wrong I was. I adjusted the gang setting on my sight so that the 20 would hit just right. Now I was ready for the true test. I checked my pin gap and found that the pins were right one the money. How could this be. The reason I found after some research was the the heavy arrow has more stored energy and does not give it up as fast as the lighter energy. Just for kicks I switched on and off for the season, and found that my X-counts improved with the heavier and slower arrows. Thus meaning that for me the bow was more accuarate when shot slower. Taking into consideration the uneven shooting surfaces and contorted form on the 3-D range. That is why I don't mind shooting a slower arrow. Huntersfriend.com makes calculations to show the forgiveness ratings of all the bows on the market. The forgiveness ratings are based on ATA, brace height, and also on speed. It gives a great comparison of all the bows out there. You can sort by all the above characteritics and see just how the forgiveness is effected by the bows design. When selecting a bow or arrow, I fugure in all the facts so that I know that I am shooting the equpment that is best suited for not only me but for the quarry that I am pursuing. 2 pounds of KE doesn't mean that much when you are over 70 lbs on both, accuracy is definately where it is at. On a bad shot, a fast bow will only miss faster IMO.

elknut1

I opted for heavier arrow setups because I know I will get better penetration when it's needed most!! The same with my choice of broadheads. I like the COC especially the two bladed style with or without bleeders. Shooting my setup at 70-74lbs will blow through the scapula of an elk if NEED BE!!! It will not blow through the scapula with a muzzy 125 and a total arrow wt. of 420 grns! I found that out the hard way!!

I'm no archery expert, but it doesn't take one to know this!!

When I want expert advice I go to Elkcrazy8, believe me, he's your man, and yes i've picked his brain a time or two. I'm sure he'll agree, the heavier setup with a good COC will give you the best penetration when it's most needed. Now see, wasn't that easy? Kinda like comparing a .270 to 300mag!! Sure both will kill elk, but one of them will bust through things better than the other!!

ElkNut1