400 yard shots at elk????
 

i don't car who u are or what rifle u shoot... a shot at an elk that is 300 yards or father shold never be taken...


u can call it ethics or what ever u would like but the simple fact is the chances are a lot better to not recover the game than to recover them!

in my book you will be called out for those kind of shots, and if u don't like it to bad! we all look for info here, i have learned alot. but using the weenie way out and blocking replies will not futher knowledge!;)


to all on this post, WHAT DO U THINK OF THE BLOCKING SYSTEM?:eek:

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

personally i think if your using enough gun, a 400 yard shot on an elk is fine. but a 25.06? i have a real problem with a 400 yard shot on an elk with that gun

on the blocking thing, i think if someone doesnt like the way someone presents themselves on here they should have the right to block them out. ronnie, some of your stuff on here comes across pretty raw, and if some people are offended by that i think its their choice, this is all of our site, and we should get out of it what we want. that all being said, i saw where elkampmaster said he had blocked you out, but wasnt really mean about it. one other guy said he blocked ya out, and he made one little comment about it, nothing big. the guy your in question about i think, bareback jack, made a pretty snotty sounding paragraph with some personal attacks (at least thats what i felt they were), then immediatly blocked you out im guessing so he wouldnt have to read your response. i personally say if ya can dish it out you can take it. bareback jack has been on here a long time, and i have never had a problem with anything he has said on here, but on this one i feel he was wrong.

just my thoughts

brad

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I would not personaly take a shot farther than 300yards because my rifle shooting is a little rusty cause I spend to much time with my bow.

But I know people that can and do shoot farther then 300Yds and are very capable of taking any game animal at 400yds with right conditons.

And I dont think alot of people read your book[&:]

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I agree to differ. A 456 yard shot got this Moose with a perfect lung shot. I would do it again under the right conditions at 600 yards. As my 338 RUM can reach out at touch something with accuracy out that far. I am comfortable out to that range.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I know there are cartridges out there that are capable of taking big game beyond 400 yds. I am not personally capable of doing it with what I have and my shooting ability. I do know people that probably cold take animals beyond that distance with no problem. It has been done, it will surely be done again. If someone is up to the task, as well as the cartridge is, I see no problem in it at all. Now if someone takes the shot, the animal doesn't fall, so they just keep on hunting, or some other scenario like that, thats where I start to have problems.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

My .338 RUM could certianly shoot accurately at 400 yards with no wind, alas....I cannot.

However, hunting an elk with a .25-06 is not exactly smart in my book either. Sometimes I wonder what guys consider "hunting". I guess if you road hunt and plan on shooting an animal within 1/2 of a road, and making short shots caliber may not be all that important.

As for me, when the airplane drops you off, you are on your own for ten days. I sleep with my rifle loaded in case of bears, my rilfe may be called upon to save my life, THAT is not an exaggeration, it's the truth. And I when I shoot a moose, I want him down NOW!. Anyone who lauds the greatness of small caliber rifles on big animals like elk or bear has never had to carry them out apiece at a time from a muskeg that sinks you up to your ankles or a canyon that takes you four hours to get out of.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I feel comfortable taking an elk sized animal at 400-450 yards with my .308, but with my .270 I will not shoot further than 200 yards. I think what you practice for and if you have enough gun are the two most important factors, and to each his own.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

:D

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I set my own range limitations based on my shooting ability, my equipment and the shooting conditions and I don't judge others based on my abilities.My opinion is that you should spend less time worrying about how far other people shoot and more time learning to spell.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Amen.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

1st i live in WYOMING that is in the west bowedark!

i never said that it can't be done, i said that 300 yards+ is just to far. to many things can happen.

also i did shoot 507 yards at antelope before, well only one shot and one kill! but thats not a 800 lb elk!as long as there is someone shooting those shots there will be wounded animals!

i am just trying to see how many just would do anything for that BIG BULL!
so lets keep talking!;)

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Manboy,

You remind me of the moron on archerytalk.com that was yapping his big mouth about how no one should take shots over 40 yards with archery equipment.

I will second stubblejumper.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I won't shoot over 300 yards unless the animal is already hit. However thats just me. I did enough long range target shooting to know that past 300-350 thing can get pretty iffy. A big magnum won't make up for an iffy hit. But thats a limit I sey for myself. Pertly because I don't shoot near as much as I used to and I have never seen an animal that I had to shoot at.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

NEVER SAY NEVER. Most people should not take 300+ yd shots. But there are quite a few who can hit at those ranges, and shoot a rifle large enough to do the job once they reach the target. I have shot several cow elk at 400+yds and never lost one. I use a 300win mag 180gr barnes X bullets. I pack em w/ a little extra powder to.:D

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

500m is about as far as I would take a shot. :) Good luck.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

AMEN!

I grew up SW Wyo. and now live in Utah. I still hunt Elk/Mulies in Wyo and throughout the Rocky Mtns. I personally bought my 7mm RUM for the sole purpose of providing accuracy and knock down power for those long Rocky Mtn shots across canyons when getting closer just isn't possible. Of the 350+ bulls on my wall, 2 of 4 were shot at 400 yds. Both ran 100-200 yds and tipped over. The other two were stuck by arrows.

I'll be the first to say lower calibers have limits and owners need to recognize them, but 400 yds is very normal out here. You live in Wyoming, you should know this. Trust me, you will have almost everyone in the western states admit shots are a bit longer out here. We just hunt different terrain. Plus, I go check out every shot on game even if I know I missed! Yes, that flat sucks sometimes to cross over steep canyons, but I do it from 5 to how ever many yards! Figure I can see that far at <5 yds.. ;)

Finally, if a 380 class bull was at 400 yds across a canyon, a steep one, and you couldn't get closer, you wouldn't shoot? My friend, I think anyone here would.

All due respect, but I think the topic should be more along the lines.... what minimum caliber should be used for shooting 400 yards at Elk?? That's more realistic and an actual issue IMO.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I make up my own mind to shoot or not to shoot. If everthing feels right I shoot. If something does not feel right? I will not shoot until it does.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

manboy, "to all on this post, WHAT DO U THINK OF THE BLOCKING SYSTEM?"

"also i did shoot 507 yards at antelope before"

manboy, I see you still find the need to criticize other more talented hunters on this site! We all know there are many calibers that can kill elk humanely above 300 yds. so it would be up to the hunter to decide if he is talented enough to kill that animal at that distance. By the way, what is the difference between the ethics of shooting at an elk over 300 yds. and an antelope at 507 yds.? In my book, ethics is ethics! That antelope is no less deserving of a humane kill than the elk! Your ethics don't hold water! Kind of like a cracked toilet! It lets the water out but still holds the sh*t!

As far as the blocking system on this site goes, I think it's great! Because of your lack of "sugar coating", in most peoples dictionary this would be termed, RESPECT! Also, while we're on the subject of RESPECT. I'm still waiting for an apology from you to Blake on the "determination" thread! I believe you know you owe it to him!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

i don't understand how someone can criticize others about there practices in hunting when the ones he criticizes are more skilled than him. i really don't know how far i would shoot with my 30-06 because i haven't been able to go out and shoot it at long distances yet. but i am over the summer. if the hunter knows he/she is able to shoot that far and know their rifle will hold up, i don't have the least bit of a problem.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Myself I like to git up close and personal. That's why I've swapped by suppository rifles for muzzle loaders. I have been to Williamsport, PA and watched the 1000 yard deer hunters have at it. It looked like they were having fun to me! I haven't blocked anybody, YET!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Slamfire, those guys have the setup dont they? Laser range finders, 100mm binos, spotting scopes, hot coffee and sandwichs. Sometimes when Im freezing my butt off in Potter I think these guys may have the right idea.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Up where I hunt elk 300-400 yd shots are pretty common. They're uphill and I haven't found a way to get closer to them. Someone mentioned a 25-06 for this - this is nuts.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

SO, it's ethical to shoot 507 yards at a target that has a vitals area the size of a paper plate but unethical to shoot past 300 yards at an animal with vitals the size of a truck tire.

Sorry but I fail to see any logic in this thread or any others I have read of yours.

Looking at the bold type in your quote I gather that you think it is perfectly acceptable for you to take a 500+ yard shot on animals, which are a lot smaller and harder to accurately hit lethaly, but the rest of us should stick to 300 or less.


Well DUH-HUH!
I think I get dumber every time I read a manboy post.


I'll just repost a line from Hunter_59 if he doesn't mind.
Your ethics don't hold water! Kind of like a cracked toilet! It lets the water out but still holds the sh*t!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

wow i am glad to see everyone is reading now!

oh, the antelope thing i WAS 14 AND IT WAS MY FIRST EVER BIG GAME HUNT! now i have got a little smarter, i just have learned a bit more than most on this site for my age!;)

lets keep it up !!!!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

So how old are you now?






Lets look at a couple of different cartridges and animals when considering how far one should shoot at an animal.

Take an antelope and an elk since they have already been talked about here. A mature antelope has about an 8 inch (50 square inches) vital area. A mature elk has about a 24 inch (490 square inches) vital area. S0, a mature elk has about 9 times as large a vital area as an antelope does. So considering this factor alone if you can accurately hit the vitals on an antelope at 300 yards then you should be able to hit an elks vitals at 2,700 yards.

Of course the fastest bullet from the biggest magnum does not travel 9 times as fast as the slowest bullet from the smallest cartridge so other things come into play.

AS far as centerfire rifles are concerned if one uses the correct cartridge for the intended game the external ballistics like energy levels, bullet drop and wind drift. differences will be pretty neglegable. IE..... a 243 caliber for antelope and a 300 mag for elk. But the size of the vital area will play a roll here. If aiming for the center of an 8 inch vital area you have a 4" margin of error around the center. If aiming for a 24 inch vital area you have 12 inches of margin around the center. That's 3 times the margin of error an elk has over an antelolpe. A 180 grain 300WSM accubond will drift 12 inches at 450 yards in a 10mph cross wind and will drop 12 inches at about 390 yards. A 95 grain .243 ballistic tip will drift 4 inches at only 225 yards in a 10mph cross wind and drop 4 inches at only 320 yards.

Then you have the speed at which the target animal can remove it's vitals from the path of the bullet before it gets there. I have no way of calculating it but I can assure you that an antelope can move 4 inches many times faster than an elk can move 12.5 inches.

So when opne actually sits down to calculate factors like this one quickly realizes that it is actually more ethical to take a 300+ yard shot on an elk than it is to take a -300 yard shot on an antelope. You certainly have a much bigger "fudge factor" than you do when the size of the animal startsdecreasing.


Did anyone here learn anything??????????????????????????

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Yet again another wizard posting manboy! True to form soap boxy & demeaning, with little attention paid to the personal aspects of the sport. I am not sure how I forgot to add the ever air of arrogance and contradiction prior..DUH!

You have got it all mb…cudo’s.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I'm sure glad I grew up in a family that didn't set limitations on themselves. What one man can do another can do. I've shot enough to know 600-700 yd shots are and can be a real mind boggling shots and for the most part not ethical on big game. But if a person is knowledgeable and well practiced 500yd shots are well in ones capability with a decent rest.

I say when you can hit a 24inch metal disk off hand at 550yd 2 to 3 times out of 3 shots without a rest. Then having a rest makes it a for sure deal everytime. Discussing what you can and can't do is better left to the boys who haven't been there.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

you can hit a 24 inch metal disk OFFHAND 2 out of 3 at 500 yards? you either have one hellufa good scope, or your mathew quigley

brad

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I beleive that a well placed shot is often the deciding factor in a situation like this no matter what the calliber, but that goes with out saying that the person behind the gun should realize the limitations of that particular calliber and not try to push the envelope. By this you are showing respect for the animal by doing everything in your power to ensure a clean kill. I do however beleive that with some of the larger calibers such as the ultra mags 500 yard shots are not unethical so long as the individual behind the gun knows how it preforms at those ranges.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Buckshot, C'mon on down to York, we'll sit in my brother's barn loft. A kerosene heater, an electric coffee pot, and guarenteed deer trails within bow shootin' distance, what more could a fella want. [8D]

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

the antelope was laying down with legs tucked(as they always do)and i was shooting a 7mm mag. that had reloads in it... as my father said the are a little hot!


like i said i was 14... if any are 14 and shoot 400 yards at elk, then learn from it...


if u are older than that may LUCK be on your side, as it is on ALL my elk hunts!!!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Wow... that sums up my opinion on manboy. I'm new to the site and now understand others' frustration with this member.

Throw out scouting, understanding elk behavior, recognizing elk habit and hard work! According to manboy, it's all about luck anyway!! oh.. and < 400 yd shots!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I say if a guy can make a 400 yard shot reliably, let him take it.

At the same time, I'll say frankly that I feel confident with 200 yard shots on whitetail and nervous with 300 yard shots (I can tell looking through the scope whether my hold is good or not, or whether I need to pass on the shot. Where I hunt wind is rarely a factor). Thankfully, most of my shots are under 200 yards.

From what I read, the average hunter is not capable of 400 yard shots. In fact, from what I read maybe only 5% to 10% of hunters are capable of 400 yard shots. I would define this as putting 5 out of 5 shots in a pie plate at 400yards from a field position, such as sitting (not many bench rests in the field). What I read came from a guide. Any of you guides care to comment on the capabilities of your dudes? From what I read some hunters have a hard time keeping 5 shots inside the pie plate at 100 yards from field positions.

As Clint Eastwood says, "A man has got to know his limitations." If you can shoot at 400 yards, take the shot. If you can't shoot at 400 yards, don't take the shot. Generally, I'm not a 400 yard shooter myself.

Another point to consider. Shooting at 300 yards with the right cartridge properly sighted in, I think no hold over or minimal holdover is needed (maybe hold a little high, but still in the hair). At 400 yards you probably need to hold over, so you have to really be able to precisely estimate the range AND KNOW YOUR CARTRIDGE'S PERFORMANCE AT THAT RANGE IN YOUR RIFLE. Any wind significantly perturbs a bullet over 400 yards. Just more argument that most people are not up to 400 yard shooting.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Alsatian, most pepole don't realize 1200ft is shooting across 40acres away.
You have to be a seasoned shooter to do so. Most think they are, but are
they?

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

I see.....we have a 14-15 year old that enjoys starting little fires on the internet and then enjoys watching everyone try to put the fire out.

I for one will use that little green circle over manBOY so that I don't have to see his crap.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

How old are you? 14?!?! It really shows in your posts dude. Really hard to take you serious.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

plb if u read all the replys u would see i am 30... and have been hunting big game since i was 14...thanks

no huntn4elk... i thought the same as u about, scouting, preperation,finding elk habitat, and hard work....but i found out differant,huntnmuleys said my 6x6 bull 339 5/8 was LUCK. i called this bull in from 80yards to 18 and waited for him to turn his head to take the shot with my bow.... but that was LUCK

his reason was i was not in the highcountry... i was in national forest instead, so it is LUCK?

to me luck is when u "wing it" and take a 400 yard shot and it woks out for you! i for one will not "wing it". but its your hunt do as u wish!

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Well regardless of how old you are, I have a quote I'd love to share with you. It's better that people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and prove it.

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Manboy,
Don't worry I still read your posts,I'm a big boy I can take it.;)

What I don't like about you is your constant bashing of other pepole on here,you never seem to have anything to add but sarcastic,demeaning remarks.

As for a 400 yrd shot would I take- yes I would,and I have.I shot a bull 2 years ago at 437 yds,from a rest, with a 300 WSM.
Now you stated earlier that why don't we learn from our mistakes,and I did.You mentioned youth being a factor,I was young when I lost that bull so many years ago.So why is that bad I learnd from one mistake,never to let it happen again.I learnd that day,no your limitations AND you weapon's limitation.I new nothing at the time of power and balistic Co.,or FT/LB's all new is that 25-06 had killed everything I pointed it up till that point,yes I was young but I also new I could make that shot,and I made the choice and I lost that elk.I and,me,numero uno lost that elk and I never said other wise,DID I.
I learnd that a 25-06 is not a long range elk rifle(oh I would still use it out to 200 yds,IF thats all I had at the time).
What I posted was a lesson to be learned by everyone,no your weapon,your weapons performance and your ability to acomplish it with the best results,a quick humane kill.If I would have known the results I would not have taken that shot with my 25-06,BUT I would with my .338 or my .300 or even a 30-06.
This is why we have a informational forum to express out thoughts our experiences,our results good or bad.
Nobody like to say they wounded a animal,I'm shur there is more out there that have,than what is said.I'm human I made a mistake,we are not all perfect.
I have worked hard to become who I'am as a sportsman and a hunter.I will help anyone who needs is I will offer my mistakes for stepping stone for other pepole,so they can learn or in your case add amusement.

Huntnmuleys sorry if I direspected your bud,but until he pays some respect others he will countinualy get what he gives out.
BBJ
BBJ

RE: 400 yard shots at elk????
 

Rather_be very good quote and something mantoy should think about