Mr Bridges,

Are you now asserting that the following public, well-documented statements made by you in August, 2004, by you were knowingly false? Or, are you pleading that you did not have the requisite technical competence to understand this gun, despite your claim as a "muzzleloading expert," and your claimed extensive study of this gun for the last 6 years?

Can you possibly explain your public, written words?


Randy Wakeman






Re: Should You Buy ML From Bass Pro/Cabela's on: 08/16/2004 at 06:34:31
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan
Thanks guys,

I appreciate the support. I imagine that I'll most likely catch a little flack today...from somewhere or another over all this. But, it is way past time to set the record straight about the Savage Model 10ML II, and getting two giants in the retailing business to stop spreading false information about the safety of the rifle is paramount.

Thanks again,
Toby

BassPro and Cabela's were also taken to task just a day earlier by Bridges:


Re: Should You Buy ML From Bass Pro/Cabela's on: 08/15/2004 at 17:23:32
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan


<SNIP>

And maybe the fourth major growth spurt will be with the chain sporting goods stores, like Gander Mountain (with 60 to 65 stores) bringing the latest and the best into locals across the country. Maybe, just maybe, with Gander handling the 10ML II, Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's will pull their heads out of the sand and see where muzzleloading is headed, educate themselves on shooting such a modern in-line rifle, and get back to selling the latest and the best instead of the cheapest and crudest like the CVA Optima Pro. The only thing "optimum" about that rifle is that it is optimum crap. But both Bass Pro and Cabela's push the heck out of them.

Toby

Re: Should You Buy ML From Bass Pro/Cabela's on: 08/15/2004 at 16:04:08
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan

As I said in the write up...whether these two giant catalogers offer the 10ML II or not won't make or break Savage. <SNIP>

What bothers me, is that the sales people at BPS and Cabela's are "authoritatively" telling folks that the 10ML II rifles are dangerous.

Toby






Savage Muzzleloading Message Board / Re: Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's on: 08/03/2004 at 14:37:34
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan
<SNIP>

Believe me, the folks at Knight, T/C, CVA, Traditions simply relish the thought that they've been able to control the buyers at BPS and Cabela's well enough that the 10ML II rifle is still not offered by these companies.

They feel that they own this market...and they are not about to let any of it slip away from them. And, like I said, Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's are the two top muzzleloader retailing operations in the country...in the world. Getting the rifle into one or both of those catalogs would let the other companies know that they don't control anything. And millions of muzzleloading shooters who still have no idea that the rifle exists (due to poor promotional efforts) will suddenly know that there is a Model 10ML II smokeless muzzleloader that shoots fast, flat and clean.

On the other hand, as long as the buyers/sales people at BPS and Cabela's talk bad about this superb muzzleloader, the longer the fear factor will be in control.

It's simply time to squash the b.s. that's being spread about the dangers of shooting smokeless in this rifle. It's time to bring smokeless muzzleloading out of the closet and into mainstream muzzleloading America.

<SNIP>

Toby


Savage Muzzleloading Message Board / Re: Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's on: 08/03/2004 at 13:08:41
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan
<SNIP>

I hear from shooters all the time who complain about the lame excuses they get about why BPS or Cabela's don't handle the 10ML II...or how the "experts" behind the counters at the super stores these two companies now operate are totally ignorant about the fact that such a great muzzleloader exists. But when I talk with folks in management, they claim that they hardly ever get any inquiries about the Savage. Talk about being in the dark.

So...to get back on track slightly...if any of you have ever inquired with anyone at Bass Pro Shops or Cabela's about why they don't offer the Savage muzzleloader...I would love to hear the answer you got or response you got to anything you tried to share with them about the 10ML II.

Toby

Savage Muzzleloading Message Board / Re: Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's on: 08/03/2004 at 08:36:49
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan
<SNIP>

That was then, and this is now. In fact, that was more than 35,000 smokeless rounds ago. Now I fully know how well the power, efficiency and cleanliness of these powders can be harnessed...in a MUZZLELOADER.

And I fully understand why Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's (today's two major muzzleloading retailers) stuck their heads in the sand to "wait and see" what kind of catastrophies lay ahead. But, there haven't been any. And it is way past due for these companies to pull their heads out of the sand and finally take a look around. Five years of blindness is long enough.

Toby


Savage Muzzleloading Message Board / Re: Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's on: 08/03/2004 at 06:17:27
Started by Savagefan | Post by Savagefan
<SNIP>

Someone in one of the posts here mentioned how these companies "cater to the big ML makers". And that's exactly the problem here. For the most part, the folks who put together the offering of ML products in these catalogs know just enough about muzzleloading to be dangerous. And when the Model 10ML II was introduced, these big catalogers simply swallowed the "dangerous rhetoric" that Knight...T/C...CVA...and others were feeding them. No one at Bass Pro Shops or Cabela's was technically inclined or experienced enough with muzzleloading to come to such a decision entirely on their own.

The Savage 10ML/ML II rifles have been produced since 2000, and in the five years since I shot the first prototypes for Savage, there have been just over 20,000 produced. And in that time, to my knowledge, no one has been injured due to a gun failing. And neither has there been a sharp rise in the number of one-handed muzzleloading shooters/hunters who were tempted to load smokeless powders into "other" in-line frontloaders - as the other companies all swore would happen.

Hopefully, there are some decision makers at Bass Pro Shops and Cabela's with the intelligence to now realize what a crock of B.S. the other muzzleloader companies have been feeding them.

Please keep posting your input on this thread...if you guys don't tell them, they sure as heck won't ever know.

Toby

Savage Muzzleloading Message Board / Re: Why would anyone want to buy the Savage ML? on: 07/22/2004 at 11:31:04
Started by rdtimmjr | Post by Savagefan
Why would anyone want to buy the Savage ML?

I guess some folks just want to own the best!

When I first showed up in one deer camp where I've been hunting for most of 20 years, the other 7 hunters in that camp were all shooting Knight's or T/C's. They kind of looked down their noses at the Savage.

But, that quickly changed...

During every mid-day break, I'd challenge the others to do some shooting. Of course, none of them wanted to shoot "their" rifles, because they didn't want to be faced with a cleaning job. So...I would pull out an extra 10ML II...and we would shoot "both" of my rifles 20 or 30 times before it was time to head back to the deer woods.

Today, the entire group owns, shoots and hunts with a Savage muzzleloader.

Why, because they can shoot them when they want without worrying about the follow up cleaning. And if the rifle didn't shoot any faster...any flatter...or any harder, the extremely low maintenance of this rifle (compared to ANY other in-line loaded with a black powder sub) would still make it a far superior design.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Toby