Wolf...

It is simple...maybe too simple for you to understand...muzzleloaders are NOT firearms as defined by the Federal government. REAL firearms come under the jurisdiction of the BATF...and they do not govern muzzleloaders.

Encore50...Don't worry...all of this will pass. These "bad boys" like to travel in packs. They just got tired of building up each other's egoes over on Wolf's message board (Modern Muzzleloading) and had to go out and try stirring things up.

I would personally like to thank them for bringing all of this to everyone's attention on this board. Savage has a serious safety problem...one that the company refuses to address. Because if they address it...they acknowledge it...and the quicker it ends up in court.

There was a time when I thought the Model 10ML II was the end all of muzzleloader development. But when one of the rifles finally let go on me...shooting a load well within the confines of the rifle's manual...I had the opportunity to look down inside of this rifle. And what I saw was far less than what's needed to contain the pressures of smokeless powder loads. And at that point, I began what Savage should have done...and that's to determine why that rifle failed. And I've presented my evidence...and I've waited for Savage's public rebuttal to my assessment of the problem...and ??????

Now, I'm hearing from Model 10ML II owners who have identified gas cuting and erosion to the sealing shoulder of their breech plug...and when they approached Savage Arms' customer service department, these rifle owners have been flat lied to by the company. These rifle owners have been told that the marks are nothing more than machining marks...and pose no problem. That is a bunch of baloney. The marks evident on these breech plugs are the result of severe pressure erosion due to the inability of the breech plug to fully contain the high pressures in the bore.

Still, no one alive has fired the Model 10ML II as much as I have. But I have absolutley no intention of ever shooting another smokeless powder round out of this rifle...not until Savage builds it correctly. With the loads Savage recommends...I now consider the 10ML II the most dangerous muzzleloader on the market.

My recommendation to anyone who owns one of these rifles is to NOT SHOOT this rifle until Savage recalls the muzzleloader and installs a fully threaded breech plug that properly seals at the front, as it should, to contain the high pressures of smokeless powder loads in the bore...not inside the breech plug recess.

This is the last post I'll make on this thread. If you own a 10ML II, just keep in mind the information I just shared each and every time you pull the trigger. And ask yourself, is endangering your safety and possibly your life worth a few f.p.s. more and a little less cleaning?

Toby Bridges