Just keep it short and fun for pups, and of course, go easy on them enough to let them be pups some. It also depends on how mature the dog is in the first place. Some mature faster than others, and a slower maturing puppy is no indication, in my opinion, of a bad dog. You know, some 16 year old teenagers seem to really have wisdom beyond their age, but then you can't be too rough on the ones that still have a ways to go in the maturity category...they'll get there. maybe people aren't the best comparison, but you get my drift. As for the W______r dog that you asked about, I'd dawn the old shock collar, not as a fix, but as a reinforcement. Only use it for one problem at a time, like come or breaking off deer. Good luck