You guys are confirming what I suspected. I seem to be on my way to a gem with the 3 shot groups all the time..but theres almost always one oddball that kills the group when ya shoot 5. My guns are all factory stock except lightened triggers. Im not gonna say what my offhanded groups are..but they are getting better..lol. I have always been a believer if a gun will group 2 inches or under with factory stuff that it was a keeper. Im still laughing over the comment oldelk made bout the internet tightening up groups..thats for sure!! Quite possibly the best accurizing tool ever invented for guns!