rolled 2 longbeards with the nitros.....BEFORE they were turkey loads.....think this is the first year for them to call them turkey loads.....but dad use to shoot tree rats at long range with the 3 inch nitro mag...1 7/8oz buffered load of #4s....just like the turkey loads......i have the box...everythings the same...only they came in a box of 25 back then not 10...and werent "turkey loads" i thumped 2 longbeards with the 1 7/8th oz load of #4s....one at about 20-25yds and one close to 35yds.....but for some reason they didnt want to pattern this year.....i think im going to play with some 5shot....i fired a load of 6s and they look nice.....i bet 5s is what my gun wants.....the 4s used to look great....but not this year.....maybe because it was cold when i patternd my gun?? who knows..ill try again when it gets nice....but them nitros work....i fired the new federals in #4 and i agree.....they thumped me alot harder then the nitro.....good luck