i shot spit fires until this year. i shot the biggest dear i've ever seen a little high and forward but only got 3-4 inches of penatration and didn't so much as find a drop of blood. i changed to 4 blade muzzy 100 grain. next deer i shot was a 120 lb. 8 point quartering to in the shoulder. it didn't go 50 yards. it broke its front shoulder and was sticking out the opposite side probably about the last rib. i will never shoot expandables again. its all about the penatration. not all shots are perfect broadside like someone else said.