I agree with the majority. I really think it would be hard to beat a 12 gauge slug inside of 100 yards for knock down power, even with a 45-70 or 450 Marlin, although they are pretty close if factory loaded. Factory loaded, the 450 will deliver 3426 ft. pounds of energy at 100 yards, using a 350 gr. Hornady bullet at 2100 fps., the 12 gauge shooting a 385 grain Winchester Supreme Gold sabot traveling at 2100 fps will deliver 3769 foot pounds at the same distance. In my experience, if you shoot'em through the lungs, they're gonna run a little no matter what you shoot'em with because they didn't absorb all of the bullets energy,but if you hit'em square on the shoulder bone, even a 243 will drop'em in their tracks. By the way, the way to figure foot pounds of energy ( for those who are not sure )= bullet weight X velocity squared divided by 450395.