Them shockwaves are no good at all... you should put them in a box and mail them to me!!! Just kidding of course. Yes they are an excellent long range projectile. You can push them as far as 120 grains in some of the better rifles, and they still hold great. I did not get the oppertunity to shoot a deer with one this year. I think they would get great penetration and expansion. So if they are accurate.. place that in the right spot and make some venison sausage afterward..