Amen Rybo.... I agree totally with what you are saying. I hunt in Bradford county, in the northern tier of the state. Our property borders state gamelands and our deer herd is a solid 8-10 miles from the nearest planted field. This year was the worst year we have ever seen hunting in PA. Do we have a right to complain I believe we do. We are the ones who pay for the liscenses and care about the wildlife. We as serious hunters don't expect to shoot a deer each and every time we go out in the woods. But for people to hunt all week or go days on end without seeing a deer, there seems to be a problem. And no we might not be as accomplished hunters and all that garbage some may think. We have taken our fair share of deer off the land we hunt. We as hunters put in the time and the desire to atleast see game we are persuing. The habitat and herd are completely different where each and everyone hunts. But to say PA hunters complain too much, I find that as quite harsh. BM you are more then welcome to come hunt our property, why you would I am not sure, but I think if you went a week without seeing a deer like many hunters near our camp or in our camp have then you would be quite miserable to. The problem of not seeing any deer takes on many spectrums as well. What about in recruitment of younger hunters? As we all know we need younger hunters to keep our sport alive, but when you have a younger hunter freezing in a tree stand or out in the woods and not evening getting a glimpse of the animal they are persuing then this puts a negative light on hunting as well. At our camp our deer don't eat crops, nor the insurance companies should care because it is hard to hit deer on winding dirt roads with ones car. THe herd in PA needs to be micromanaged, we can't continue at his rate, or the tradition of going to deer camp will slowly die with our hunting tradtion. Why should we head up to the mountains to hunt deer when we don't see any compared to the ones we see eating outa our neighbors birdfeeders in suberbia. Even if you don't realize it I am sorry some hunters do have a right to complain. BM even if you don't see it, the system is not working for most of us. You can say hunt harder or you don't have the skills to hunt deer like the people that are seeing deer, but I think it is time for Gary Alt to look into this program in all spectrums. A simple way to start the fix I feel is seperate private and public land tags for each WMU. How much extra cost would this bring to the Game Commission, I doubt a lot but that would begin the process of micromanaging our deer herd. Sorry to sound like "another complaining PA hunter" but I think the PA herd or PA hunting conditions aren't what people see in their personal honeyhole but you have to step back and look at the big picture.