No elk Larry, I don't know much about your area or season dates, but it sounds to me that the elk have done moved on you. I can remember the first place that I took my first elk in. It holds some memories, but it would be the last place that I would go looking now. 30 years is a long time to hunt the same spot. Feed changes, habitat changes , etc. etc. I am always looking for that secret spot. I would try looking lower and see what happens. I just took a couple of friends on a successful deer hunt last week. I called my local bioogist for some migration information. He led me in the right direction. With that and a little scouting we found one nice shooter and one that just missed boone and crocket. Different animal but I would do the same if I ever decided to pick up a rifle(fat chance) for elk. If you really want to kill an elk I think that you would have better chances with a bow. Sounds strange to most, but if you can blow on an elk call and hit a beachball size target from 20 yards in. You will have more chances to take one than you ever could imagine. Not trying to sway you in the least, but it is awesome. After this last season I am 5 for 5. I had a gap there several years ago,the only reason I failed to get one that year was because I gave all my chances to a newbie. Now he is hooked. Find yourself an area that holds elk. Walk further than the last guy did. And use the tactics from elknuts videos and you will have better chances than you do now. I also keep my clothes up in a tree away from camp. I don't like anyother smells than elk on them. I bath every night with scent free soap and change all my undergarmets. Play the wind like elknut says. I have blown more bulls by shifting wind currents. If you are going up-hill from your camp in the A.M. the morning thermals are taking your scent right into the herd. They will be in the next county before you even get to where they were.....Anyone else want to add????? This guy needs to break the ice. I forgot to mention that if 10 guys are camped below the elk, ALL of your scent is moving up the hill. Those elk are going to move right on out.