i wont use em anymore except as for cheap ammo to whack groundhogs with...i had bad luck with them in the passed....i hit my second deer with the round nose 180s..i was 13..didnt buy the ammo...god only knows why dad bought them....it was less then 10 from me...ive never had a hole that big....i could put my fist in the exit....never saw such a thing....that wasnt bad...then the next year i went to PSP 165gr bullets....youth doe hunt....doe walkes down the trail like it was supposed to....i stop it....line up.....BOOM....jumps adn takes off....ya its going down.......never found it.....VERY VERY skimpy blood for maybe 30yds then NOTHING.....NOTHING to be found in 3 more hrs of searching this little set of woods....dad was a bow hunter from way back and knows about tracking deer...ive had guys that really dont like my dad much tell me that he was a heck of a bow hunter....next deer was in rifle season..lined everything up...BOOM....deer runs off...ONE drop of blood found....that was IT.....followed scuffles in the leaves for a little ways till she meet up with the herd and we lost them...i dont know if the bullets were basically exploding on impact or what...thats my guess...both deer were close...30yds and about 50yds...from a 3006....shooting groundhogs this summer with that ammo showed some nasty stuff...my friend was shooting balistic tips in a 260 and my 3006 was doing more damage....im not hunting anything important with remington ammo anymore....ive never seen a 3006 not leave blood exspecially at close range.....heck ive never had one go 30yds...makes me sick to think about them deer.....premium ammo only for me now.......ever since.....leave the cheap stuff for the groundhogs....