One thing that keeps coming up when I talk with people about the 777crud ring is bullet weight. It seems that if you shoot 250gr. or less the problem does not exist as often. I only shoot 300gr. or heavier bullets and I get some crud ring with any combination I shoot (Hornady sabot bullets, Harvester sabots with cast or jacketed bullets, Powerbelts). The other thing is the rifle barrel tightness as well as number of shots down the barrel by the time 777 arrived. My T/C Omega is a real tight barrel and I have only shot less than 50 rounds through it up to now. I have been using T/C saturated patches between shots and maybe the #13 stuff is not helping. I may try the next round with clear Windex with vinegar on the patches. I have had reports that is a good over-the-counter thing to use.