well the first time i saw the 4 bucks together i was bush-hogging my front pasture, looked into the back pasture 350-400 yrds and saw 4 bucks standing together, i still get chills when i think about what that bush-hog would have done to me if i had fallen of the tractor[:-], its to bad my game camera was sitting down there with dead batteries, hence the no daytime pics, i have never seen the 8pt in daytime. hey groundhunter i'm still trying to get a permit, my wife says it ain't gonna happen, there pets, she'll go shopping one day though, and i have not even had my camera on the property i hunt, maybe time to get another for my use, i'm hoping my 10 year old grandson will get one during the rut, i'd get a bigger thrill out of that than killin it myself, less its some kind of b&c freak of nature then i might have to show him what to do............