with winchester the older the better. the pre-64s are nice guns, the new winchesters are crap. i bought a new winchester 30-30 last year from k-mart on close out and it doesn't hold a candle to my marlin 444. the marlin is a bit heavier but much better balanced and easier to shoot than the winchester. in addition, the winchester safety is a push button that extends more than 1/4 inches from the receiver, not only does it look stupid but it's very easily pushed in on accident. the winchester doesn't even have the safety hammer cock.