fasstfletch, I agreee with you on the no 11 ring thing; makes people try too hard and the math is a bummer also. Actually i favor a bigger 10 ring, as I see it on most targets the kill area is larger than the 10 ring. By the way how much does your club charge for shooting the course?? It seems to me if clubs are having trouble with the targets getting shot up and they are complaing about the cost, why not raise the fee for shooting?? Don't they do that in the real world?? If some clubs don't charge enough for a shoot and others charge more to cover costs, which club is smarter??