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Old 08-25-2004 | 01:06 PM
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driftrider
Nontypical Buck
 
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Coralville, IA. USA
Default RE: watch out for winchester muzzleloaders

The recommended load for XMP-5744 is 44 grains. Bridges had shot and undisclosed number of shots at 48 grains (9.1% over max by weight) before firing the 49 grain load (11.4% over max by weight) that blew the gun up.

With smokeless powders, burn rates and pressure levels depend on both the amount of powder, the design of the powder (powder specific burn rate) and also the pressure it's burned at. When pressure levels in a smokeless firearm reach a certain level the burn rate and pressure levels can spike erratically. That's why load manuals for smokeless arms have MAX loads that should NEVER be exceeded under any circumstances by a reloader who lacks a fully equipped ballistics lab with pressure test equipment. The Savage is no different.

With black powder and substitutes the burn rates and pressure curves are very different. And because the BP and volumetric subs are so inefficient and require air to burn (black powder combusts, whereas smokeless powder decomposes), there can be no direct comparison made between the effects of overcharging with T7 and smokeless powder. A 10% overcharge of smokeless can, as Bigcountry mentioned, easily create pressure excursions in on the order of 90,000psi or more.

So yes, the Savage is different and must be loaded more cautiously with more attention to detail than it's black powder shooting cousins. It's no different than the care and attention to detail that a CF smokeless cartridge handload must excercise when loading CF cartridges. But failure on the shooters part to heed published load maxes or excercise due caution when loading a 10ML doesn't make the gun unsafe, it makes the shooter an idiot asking for trouble. Of course, the same could be said for those who knowingly load more that the max recommended loads of T7 and such in their muzzleloaders as well.

The moral of the story is this...if you are unable to take the time to learn how to properly load a Savage, or unwilling to stick with the published loads, then the Savage (and all other ML's in the case of the latter category) are NOT for you. The Savage 10ML-II is for experienced, yet cautious shooters only. Idiots and hot-rodders need not apply. Toby Bridges hsould have known better than to do what he was doing. He pushed the envelop and was rewarded with a blown up rifle. The guy who used 'Lil Gun is in the same boat.

This incident is a classic example of someone deferring blame, a trait common among the anti-gun types, but one that apparently can also be found among gun enthusiests as well. Bridges intentionally and repeatedly overloaded the gun, and then has the gall to call it unsafe and defers fault to the gun and to Savage for his own folly. Bridges has no one to blame but himself, IMO.

I don't keep up-to-date with smokeless MLs because I personally believe that if you want NOT to see smoke, then stick with the centerfires for best results..
Because some of us want the option of both greater performance and most importantly the added convienience of smokeless powder, and cannot use CF rifles to hunt deer (legally) in their state. And regardless of the powder type, the Savage is still a ML with the inherent limitations thereof. Cloud of white smoke or not, I only get one shot just like everybody else. I just don't have to worry about my barrel rusting out overnight if I don't hightail it back home to clean my gun.

Mike
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