as far as im concerned deer cant count... at least all the deer that io have seen and shot. i wached as my grandfather shot a doe in front of a buck that he had been watching for months just walking around the area. we didnt realize he was there untill the doe dropped about 20 yards from the buck. but the very next day guess who walked under our stand... yup you guessed it.. that buck is to this day up in my familys cabin all 12 points of him and his girlfriends front legs are holding the bow that did em both in.