One last comment on this subject. The " hunter " who goes to a 3-d shoot should look at it as " practice for hunting season " , and only that. A friend of mine will go to maybe 2 shoots with me during Sept. to help get ready for bow season. He is a GOOD shot but does not know the targets nor use his binos. He looks and shoots and usually says, " That's a dead deer !", then we go score and it is an 8 ! Guys like him should not even keep score if this is their mindset. If he doesn't score as well as the rest of us he gets discouraged. That is one aspect of 3-d competition, you have to shoot them where the guy who made the target wants you to, not where you would shoot a real animal. The same goes for angled shots. Shooting back on an angled away target will get you a 5 in a hurry ! Some of the local clubs have a preseason warmup shoot that are fairly well attended. Score doesn't matter for most of these guys as it shouldn't. The Defence course would be an option for these guys but I doubt people would travel far or spend alot to do it. This type of shooter has to realize the difference between " hunting practice " and " 3-d comp. " and accept the fact they are not going to be at the top.