Bobgobble 2 I have shot a lot of nitros in the 3oz load and I wasnt kidding about the kicking,Actually I have had a quite a few put me on my back from a sitting position. Ok here is what I get from 40 measured yards with the barrel not hanging over. 3oz 101 L #4nickel with hast 685 I can put in the 180s in a 10in circle. With a win turkey head it has put 87 in the head and neck. I have patterned about all of rays 10 turkey loads. I have got all of the test patterns wrote down if anyone is interested. I like the larger shot. I have tested a lot of choke combos and probably shot about 75 of his shells. I take the weight out of my NE stock and that lightens it about 2 lbs I believe. I think 10 bore gets better than I do with the 101 Ls.