The first would be between 145 and 150 and the second is a little harder to score with a pic.I dont like the deduction system,I like nontypical antlers better anyway. I like scoring every inch of bone.What a insult to make deductions on a Critter God created.Thats like saying God messed up. Anyway just a quess the second wouls be in the 150's/ I have one similiar to it with the crab claws,but it has 16 points,double brows and heavy mass with 6 inch bases and it scores 182 with deductions and 192 without.
here is a pic
http://community.webshots.com/user/midnight250
click om muzzy album pics 334,335