I personally don't feel the 12 kicks much. The recoil pad on the H&R's is the most absorbing I've ever seen-absolutely awesome.

Both our 12 & 20 have Simmons 4X scopes. My 12 has the Pro-Diamond recticle which is really cool because the diamond in the middle represents 14 inches at 100 yards, so it's like a range finder if you estimate the deers body size, even closely. The 20 has the regular recticle. Never had a problem with either of these scopes. If you look around you can find the Pro-Diamond scopes for like $50 new.

Back to the kick of the 12. When I first bought it the scope was supposed to be bore sighted and I bought alot of the old style Remington Copper Solids in 3 inch Mag and finished out the shop's stock. Paid 13.95 a box for them. I went to the range to dial it in and they had to have BS'd me about the bore sighting. I shot more than 15 boxes of ammo before I could even get close to a "group". I was po'd badly and went back to complain-they gave me a store credit, but no cash. Those old style 3 inch Copper Solids shot well back then, but since the change (smaller hollow point) they don't agree with this gun. Anyway, after all the shooting I was driving home and said to myself, "Self, you didn't think too well, shooting all those rounds in one session, you are not going to be able to move your arm tomorrow."

Well next morning I didn't feel like I'd been shooting at all.

Uncle Matt (in IL)