Deputy, we've had debate on another forum. A head to head shoot off with the UF with Pyrodex or T-7 versus the Savage with smokeless, might be very interesting. No doubt that you are extremely proud and found of your UF. If it performs like you say it does, and I have no doubt it doesn't, then you have ervery right to be proud and found of it. I would be too.
Yes, Toby was up in Michigan last month. He was up there doing a smokeless powder muzzlelaoder siminar for the MI DNR and the hunter education program. Why he didn't stop by to fire a couple or a few shots over a chronograph with the UF, you will have to ask him that yourself. But like he has told me on several occassions, is that the only way he will test one, is that UF sends one to him for at least 6 months, let him shoot it, test it, evaluate it, and hunt with it, not the canned or staged so-called "test" that UF's wants him to do. Then he will give UF's and the rest of us his facts, comments and opinions, whether they be good, bad, or ugly. Any kind of other "test" would not a true indication of what the rifle could and could not do. Why will they not send him or anyone else a sample rifle to fairly and honestly test, evaluate, and hunt with?
I go this from the Ultimate Firearms, Inc., website:
Powder: Black Powder FFG or equivalent. Recommended Maximum Powder Charge 200 grains or (4) Pyrodex Pellets.
The rifle has been subjected to just over 125,000 PSI Breech pressures. That amount would cause failure in most any other muzzleloader. The rifle has 2 lugged, locking bolt, with two blow by ports to prevent any primer blow back. Due to the patented ignition system there are no gasses expelled thru the breech plug. This rifle should NEVER be fired with a smokeless powder. This is an over built fire arm with safety in mind.
Straight from the UF site.
This rifle should NEVER be fire with a smokeless powder. The UF muzzleloader IS NOT A SMOKELESS POWDER MUZZLELOADER, WAS NEVER DESIGNED TO BE AND SHOULD NOT BE SHOT WITH ANY MODERN SMOKELESS POWDERS.
Recommended Maximum Powder Charge 200 grains or (4) Pyrodex Pellets Four pellets or 200 grains of T-7 is exceeding UF's recommended MAXIMUM powder charge, not too mention 5 pellets or 250 grains.
First of all, the Savage was designed from the start to be a TRUE SMOKELESS POWDER MUZZLELOADER. For obvious safety reasons, I would not go advocating the use of smokeless powders in any muzzleloader that was not specifically designed to handle it and that the manufacture of that muzzleloader specifically stated and recommended the use of smokeless powder. To do other wise is just not smart.
Whether the Savage is equal to the UF or not, with Pyrodex or T-7, is irrelivent. The Savage is a smokeless powder muzzleloader first and foremost. It just so happens it can and will shoot BP and any of the BP synthetic powders. Quite well I might add. The number of states that do not allow the use of smokeless powders during the muzzleloader hunting seasons is growing smaller every year. The exact same thing happened to In-line muzzleloaders and saboted projectiles when they were first introduced. It won't be but a few years and that argument will be a mute point.
also no vent liners to be modified, no replacing them, no sub bases etc.. just load and shoot and well i can get you my numbers with the 200 grainer if yah like as well it is scarry and then again just load and shoot, and no breech plug to pull and clean ever.
I can understand the vent liner comment, but they (vent liners) need not be modified. The vent liners are a wear item, designed to wear and be replaced instead of replacing the breech plug itself. Just the nautre of the beast with the Savage. I don't normally shoot sub-bases myself and I have no problem, with 2,300+ FPS with a 300gr bullet and 1.5" and better accuracy nor do I have much of any problem getting 2,600+ FPS with 250gr bullets with same accuracy or much better. All this in a rifle that is mild recoiling, much cheaper to shoot, and if you don't want to clean it right away, you don't have, as you can wait a a day or two, a week, a month, or even 6 months. And the Savage doesn't require a AFT Form 4473, and can be mail ordered and shipped directly to your home (if your state's law allow it).
However, on the UF you never, ever have to pull the breech plug and clean it? Have you ever removed your breech plug in your UF? Does it come out easy? Man, I would hate to see that breech plug after a few shots with Pyrodex and letting it sit for a few days, even if I did clean the bore, which I don't know how you can clean the entire bore without removing the breech plug. After a while of that I guess you would have to remove the breech plug, because you couldn't even if you wanted to. And what about using T-7, that stuff was a breech plug sticker for sure when first introduced, have you removed the breech plug since you have been using it? Again, can your breech plug be removed after shooting T-7 and not remove it promptly for cleaning? Just curious, because the UF website says that the breech plug is removeable.