You won't remove the copper without a quality copper remover. I try to keep the brands the same so no incompatibility with ingredients exist. I have used Shooters Choice and Shooters Choice copper remover and had very good results. Others have tried Barnes CR10 or Sweets and like them. They are excellent products as well and by themselves probably work better then Shooters Choice Copper Remover. Followup with a good gun oil. Do not let the Copper Remover sit in the bore more then 10 minutes. Use a Patch or a nylon brush do not use a coppper brush. At least once a year I run a foul out III on my barrels and if its there its gone after that thing runs. I need to try this new foam product that you leave overnite in the bore and see how that works out.