ORIGINAL: alloutdoors
Ok, I see what part of the problem is. You don't seem to realize the different branches that exist within the DEC. First of all, the officers aren't the DEC, not in the sense of being the ones making the regs anyway.
Never said they were.
BTW... why do you say that DEC officers are wannabe cops? Do you realize that they actually ARE state troopers??? They have ALL of the power that a state trooper has PLUS the authority to enforce the environmental laws. Might want to be careful who you are calling wannabes.
99% of the ones I have met ARE wanna be's plain and simple. They may technically have those powers but they don't use them on a day to day basis. They just drive around bored off their ass hoping to find someone doing something wrong to put some excitement into an otherwise brutally boring job. You know exactly what I mean.........they can be found in every pseudo law enforcement branch out there.
You said you are hunting "state forest"... there is a huge difference between state forest and Wildlife Management Areas. Management of state forest lands falls to the forestry division, and their goal is not necessarily wildlife management.
I have hunted every state forest and WMU within a 4 hour drive in every direction........my statements apply to them all.
Thats why most of the state forests are solid pine stands, they were put there for timber harvest, and no, your not going to find many deer there.
Well the state forest I have spent most my time in and around has some pines but is mostly hardwoods and in the last 17 years I have seen it logged once and that was minimal...........Oh and BTW my family has taken too many deer to count from that place where you "won't find many deer" LOLOLOL
As far as the deer counting, yeah not everyone takes their deer to a processor, I sure don't. But, if x% of people who take their deer to a processor aren't reporting their deer, it is reasonable to conclude that the same % of people who don't take their deer to a processor also arent reporting. You see how that works?
You have got to be joking.........small random samples used and extrapolated to cover the whole state. Full of assumptions and guesswork. The error rate of such guesstimating would be huge.
Trust me, state agencies have been doing this for quite a while now, they know what they are doing,
I will trust you and them when I start to see with my own eyes in the woods and fields what they are telling me I should see. Until then it is all just blowing smoke. Put up or shut up. When 99% of the people in the woods are saying the same thing you really should pay attention to it.
it's really simple math. Infact I think I learned the procedure in the first wildlife class I took.
Obviously it wasn't statistics
As far as the sample size... maybe you missed the part that said ***These aren't "real" numbers... just going to keep it simple for an example.*** I was just using some simple numbers to illustrate the method.
So what IS the sample size??.......how many processors do they go to in how many areas and at what time of year, what seasons, how many deer do they count in total and how do they check those tag numbers against the DECALS system, do they use different processors every year or same ones, do the processors tell them these numbers or do they physically go and count tags and write down numbers to check, how many numbers are mistakenly transcribed and what is done if it is??
That's a good start.
Well, that is how you would see it.
So it's OK for you to see other people's statements as arrogant but when your own arrogance is called out.......that is a problem. Interesting logic.
However, let's be honest, spending a few days/weeks each fall in the woods deer hunting is not the same as having "decades of experience".
I hunted 40+ days last year and have been hunting for 17 years. My brothers 19 and 24 respectively and my dad over 40 years........all in pretty much the same woods. I won't even count all our friends, relatives and other hunters we know with equal or more experiences.
Now add in all the days we spend in the woods scouting and hunting turkey and small game and you might start to see the light............but I doubt it.
Do you honestly think that the average hunter who rails against the DEC for being "stupid" and "not knowing what the hell they are doing" is actually as qualified as a biologist who has spent their entire adult life studying deer, day in and day out???
I personally couldn't care less. It doesn't matter to me who knows more or who has been to school today. What I care about are the woods I spend a good part of my life enjoying and right now I am simply fed up with all the crap. I have been saying these things for years now because it has been brewing for a LONG time. In the near future you will hear more about it as it starts to effect more and more "average hunters" and they start thinking twice about spending $70 to go sit in the woods and watch the leaves fall.
You know, I drive to work and back everyday, I have a lot of "first hand experience" behind the wheel of a car, but I don't think that makes me qualified to head into turn 3 at Indy at 200 mph. See my point?
So no one is allowed to voice an opinion based on real life experiences in the woods unless they have a degree in wildlife management?? You really don't want me to point out the arrogance thing again do you?
Because when a group is responsible for looking after our woods that we love so much and the animals within.........they have to face the music if they are not doing a good job.......just like every other job in the world. No one is saying they are twisting their hands like Mr Burns and hatching an evil plan against hunters in NY. I simply see them as incapable of doing the job........fill in the blank with whatever reason you want, it doesn't really matter. Bottom line is they are not doing a good job managing our deer herd and I will be damned if I am gonna sit there and watch it happen without voicing an opinion on the matter.
Your attitude of "anyone who isn't a wildlife biologist should just shut up and leave it to the pros" is simply nauseating and has actually lowered my opinion of DEC officials because I'm sure you aren't the only wanna be out there with that attitude.
No wonder we are on this dead end road. NY should be a Mecca for deer hunters from around the country.................should be
