thanks for the help. I hunt mostly in east texas with a mix of big woods and pine plantations. I have decided to get a new climber since i will be hunting on the move and have several creeks to hunt. I also went to the proshop and asked them thier thoughts. They all had the same opinion treestands. said deer in east were to skidish for ground. so i did some research and it looks like summit viper is the way to go and cabelas had them on sale so got one on order will let you know how it goes . Again thanks for all the help!!!!!