What I guess I didn't explain was they must be in the marsh and not coming out till after dark. It stands to reason if they were noturnal or not and in the drive path they would be be up and running. Every deer that did get up and we were able to put eyes on it was heading to the marsh. We could not place standers close enough to the marsh to get get any shots. When they were spotted they were in the briars where a rabbit wouldn't go, must have been bedded in there and within a hop skip and jump from the water.