Bogobble, I know what you are saying. To me, getting the deer in close is the biggest challenge of all in hunting. You hear guys say " I killed this deer a 387 yds." That's fine, but I like 'em close. It's more exciting that way. I hunt with a rifle considerably more than with a bow and nearly every deer that I have taken has been within 50 yds. Most of them more like 25-30 yds. That is the exciting part, wheter with a gun or a bow in my opinion.