Originally Posted by
Bocajnala
The "void" debate between the spine and lungs comes from primarily archery hunters who have hit a deer high. A high lung shot with a bow often does not bleed allot outside of the deer. Resulting in a kill shot but no blood trail. And believe me, deer can cover some distance after a high lung shot. Lots of deer are lost this way. Or they hit over the spine and think they made a good shot because of how the deer reacts.
Cubslayers point in his last post was that a muzzleloader would likely do allot more damage than an arrow if hit in the "void"(which we've established doesn't exist) and we wouldn't be having a conversation about that "void" shot anyway. He was just saying he didn't know if it made a difference between arrow or .50cal in relation to that shot. In most cases-it does.
I don't think he has a problem with muzzleloaders at all. He gave good advice. Stick with something "better" until you improve. I wouldn't hand my recurve to a brand new hunter or shooter. That would be silly.
Is my recurve adequate? Absolutely, in my hands. Is it a good choice for someone with not allot of experience? No.
He went on to say that a .50 Cal front stuffer is "plenty" and that if a good shot was made, the deer shouldn't have been lost.
Sounds like you both agree.
-Jake
Jake, This (Void) is the Only thing i have ever disagreed with you on.
I Lost a Nice buck like this about 4-5 years ago, I had sighted my .257 Weatherby in using a Lead Sled (HORRIBLE Devices!!) I took the Sight in as being “Gospel” I didn’t Test the Rifle against my Shoulder (Free Recoil) Anyway, I was Shooting High, about 10” or a Little more High! I didn’t find this out til later
The First Animal that year was a Bull Elk, I shot for Low Lungs (As I ALWAYS do) When I Pulled the Trigger the Bull Went Down IMMEDIATELY, Just like he had been hit between the Eyes, I IMMEDIATELY Knew that was WRONG, Elk NEVER React like that, I have Killed 10-12 Elk, When hit in the Lungs 99.9% of the Time when the Rifle Settles down after the Shot, the Elk will be standing there, It’s Dead, But stil On it’s Feet, You will notice them Starting to Wobble, and Down they Go. Upon Skinning, and Quartering this Bull I found my Bullet had hit the Bottom of his Backbone (Hence why he Went Down Immediately) I simply wrote it up as something i had done Wrong? I had grabbed a little Sapling and bent it over for a Rest, In the back of my mind I thought “that Little sapling somehow Lifted when i pulled the Trigger?”
I move on to my Deer Hunting, I didn’t bother Checking my Rifle, i was Confident everything was fine, my rifle had been babied, No bumps a Bruises of any kind.
I spot a Nice Whitetail, EASY Shot, no more than 100 Yards, perfectly Broadside, and i had a SOLID Rest, This Rifle would Put 5 Shots in a Dime at 100 Yards with this Load. I shoot for Low Lungs, the Buck JUMPED and “MULE KICKED” at the Shot (80 Grain Barnes TTSX, My Handloads, Traveling at 3,700 FPS over my Chrono) The Buck Ran at an Angle toward me out in the Wide open, He came about 70-80 Yards and STOPPED, Of all things He stopped in behind an Old Log with Roots Attached, I could NOT See Vitals? Just his Back Bone, and Neck, I didn’t feel any need to shoot again, I Calmly waited for a Minute, i was CONFIDENT he would Start Wobbling Around Any Second and Go Down, After SEVERAL minutes I realized Something was Wrong, BAD WRONG, I KNEW that Buck was Hit!! I have Shot WAY to many Deer in my Lifetime to think otherwise. I didn’t like the Neck shot i had, So i settled on his Back bone, at this point the Buck was probably 75 Yards from me, EASY Shot. I take the Shot, The Buck WHEELED and RAN back the Direction he Came. I Obviously didn’t hit him, had i hit the Backbone he would have went DOWN IMMEDIATELY
I head in and Start trying to figure it out? I found 1 TEENY TINY Speck of Blood on a Leaf Where he had Stood Behind that Old log, That was the ONLY Blood i ever Found, I could EASILY track him the Way he had Ran Back where he had Came from, he had tore the Ground up, NOT a Speck of Blood. I spent 2 Days in here and Covered Several Square Miles, No sign of him, he was Simply Gone
I take my Rifle out and Check shoot it, SURE enough it was HIGH, like 10 inches high!
What I think happened? The only thing that makes Any Sense? Now that I Know for a FACT that my Rifle was High, I Obviously Shot OVER his Lungs, If i had hit his Lungs he would have Died. And If i had Hit, or even touched his Backbone he would have went DOWN like the Bull Elk Did, I am CONFIDENT the Bullet went over his Lungs, and Under His Backbone. And My little 80 Grain Barnes TTSX bullet from the .257 Weatherby traveling at 3,700 FPS Zipped Through like Butter, With the Barnes X Bullet being a “PREMIUM” Bullet, They Don’t Blow Apart, They Roll Back in a Perfect Mushroom, 4 Pedals, and DRIVE Through.
i Made another Shot like this By accident a few years later with my Little 7MM-08 And Nosler Ballistic Tip Bullets, My Shot was WAY to High, The Buck JUMPED, Muled Kicked and RAN, I could Track him no problem, Not lots of blood, But Enough to Stay with him. A good 1/2 Hour had passed from my Shot to Finding him, He was down in a Creek Bottom Laying on his Belly, With his Head Up, In Shock, I had to Shoot again. I HATE THAT Happened!! But at least i Recovered him. UPON Gutting him, His Lungs were FULLY Intact, The Shot was OVER them. But this Bullet being “NON Premium” And Traveling SUBSTANTIALLY Slower, Their Was Enough SHOCK Damage to Stop him, put him Down.
I DEFINITELY Believe in the “Void” BUT I also believe it takes a VERY Unique Situation for it to Show up, My .257 Weatherby With that Little 80 Grain Premium Bullet traveling at LIGHTNING Speed was the Perfect, or Better yet Worse Case Scenario for the “Void”. I would Place a LARGE bet that if I could make that EXACT same Shot again Today, with Say a Berger Bullet, Something That Intentionally By Design BLOWS APART, I believe that Buck that i lost Would have Went STRAIGHT DOWN at the Shot, of course this is Speculation? But I’ve been through, and Seen a LOT