gm54 i firmly believe you right on that. i must say the bullet did some damage but not as much as a barnes expander does therefore i wonder how the carnivore woks on a deer @ over 100 yrds away.think i will try to back out a little from where these deer cross & try it. don't want to loose a animal but willing to try on a deer damage farm . but when it goes to the gun season & i'm using a muzzy differently will be using a barnes expander or a barnes tez.