Originally Posted by
BarnesAddict
So then a CVA frame that has a Bergara barrel installed is also a custom? A CVA that comes with a standard breech plug and a BH209 breech plug is installed is a custom? An Encore platform rifle that uses the same frame but an XT breech plug is a custom? An Encore or CVA that will easily swap barrels to a CF (two guns in one) is a custom? An identical rifle, regardless who purchases it, even if its built by a single person the identical way and identical parts each time, is always a custom built rifle because its not produced on an assembly line? If any rifle is built by multiple people, then its the only way it can be considered a production rifle?
I can assure you, my last Pro Hunter that as I was told I'd regret selling, and do, would outshoot for accuracy any Ultimate made, including my own. However, because I changed the hinge pin and trigger spring, by most people's definition it would have been considered a custom. That would also mean that any Rem700ml that had the 209 conversion added, would also then be a custom. It also means that any White rifle is a custom built rifle.
Only three years ago the Ultimate rifle was barely, if ever, mentioned in forums or on sites. If an owner of the rifle never posted, it wouldn't even be considered or talked about. 99% of the owners of these rifles aren't accurate shooters with them and never will be. They bought them because of the marketing.
Grouse mentions its old tech and outdated, as have others. It is a rifle designed to shoot the dreaded pellet, an outdated propellant with high SD's, but convenient for new shooters. It only comes in .50cal, where everyone wants a fast twist .45cal today. It is not, and you will be told expressly by UF, it IS NOT BH209 compatible and you will be told not to shoot BH209 from the rifle and BH209 is not listed as an approved propellant in the rifle's manual.
I'm wondering, how many people would get involved in any kind of match or even a friendly back yard competition, where a case of beer was the prize, and want to use pellets and a 300gr SST, when everyone else was shooting weighed charges of BH209 and Parker BE or MH bullets?
I actually knew that your response would be to deflect away from the bp express and on to something else. Why does Ken advertise that he is selling custom muzzleloaders? Its not marketing or else CVA (like you mentioned) would advertise they are selling custom muzzleloaders because it sounds better. CVA doesnt because they dont sell custom muzzleloaders. Ken does, well.... because he sells custom muzzleloaders, as hard as that is to believe. CVA and TC also doesnt build rifles on a per order basis either.
The word production in the usual sense of the word in how we use it is, yes, mass produced guns that you can pick at your typical sporting good store, internet vendor, etc. But, your definition of production actually opens the door to a lot of guns yet i bet if they showed up you guys would be throwing fits about them being there (Friendship anyone?). I dont see why Hankins and Luke from ASG cant get in this. They use remington and savage actions, their own breechplug system, and aftermarket barrels amd sometimes they actually have guns already built ready to go (at least Luke). Yet again, one of them guns show up and there will be an uproar.