And those are in the "better" class of rifles Jeep. What he is looking at is a very cheap production model Howa and very cheap stock made by Hogue. And as far as your opinion of Savage not even coming close to Howa? I've got a few Savages that I'd pit against any Howa you own out to 1000 yards. They are okay rifles and actions but they aint all creamed butter.