This has been quite entertaining the last couple of days and semi-informative. Love these type discussions. No reason for anyone to get butthurt some like the cartridge some don't. I've had great luck with it so far for what I have asked it to do, which is punch paper and dirt nap deer with the same rifle and not wear my shoulder out at the same time. I'm sure there are other cartridges that do one or the other or even both better, but it gets the job done for me.