So, after reading the debates on here of what constitutes a traditional muzzle loader I decided to play the devils advocate just as a reminder. "The original inline design was conceptualized as far back as 1808. Jean Samuel Pauley patented a system in which the cock of the sidelock was replaced by a cylindrical hammer driven by a coil spring. His system was then expanded upon by Johann Nicolaus von Dreyse who developed the Dreyse Needle gun that was adopted by the German military in 1871." Traditional firearms is merely interpreted as to which time period one wishes to use or reenact. Now I am not knit picking fellers I totally understand what is meant by traditional muzzleloaders and I believe Ron's hot rod should be acceptable or the only ones discussed should specific time period correct in which they represent. So we could eventually eliminate everyone from this forum. Now the useless rhetoric I have written isn't really worth discussing. It surely would not encourage or support anyone in my personal opinion. Hope y'all enjoyed my devils advocate performance.