One thing all companies do.
They Use the English language to Trademark Words to market/sell their products!
Not only is a this battle of firearms it is a battle of words to sell said firearms.
Coin a phrase that stays with the public and have it trade marked and it is a very hard thing to beat in the long run!
Like "Where's the Baggy" or give me a "Zip-lock" whic both are brand specific plastic seal-able bags which many different companies manufacture - but there is only ONE real Zip-lock Manufacturer and only One real Baggy Manufacturer. The Ziplock Manufacturer had to over come "Hey give me a Baggy!" phrase.
Or the Term Give me some "RAID!" or Off! and I bet you all know those brands well.
And there are other brands out there like that too! We all know them.
And for what it is worth!
The title of this thread was negative from the get go. It is One against many!
The term "Just a better gun!"
From all the negative comments posted from the past posts by the many Authors/Posters/HNI Members, the outcome is rather clear to me and the results have not been finished yet.
Quick Release Breech Plugs for instance. If I need to use a tool it is not quick in my thinking. But then again having half the size when compared side to side with have the amount of pipe threads there - well I can see a difference. Is it quick?
And like others here I have both Tooled breach plugs and Hand removal. I prefer hand removal far better than using a tool which so far has been removed by hand.
And - Half the time I forget where I put the dang tool for my other inline firearms! I can walk downstairs with that tool in my hand grab my cup of coffee and that tool is gone! I tell ya my house if full of gremlins.
So at best let Grouse continue his experiment.
Just remember this is one person's opinion.
We can agree/refute/provide additional evidence or rebuttal to his findings. State your piece and reason why. But keep it current. This comparison is with "Today's" current manufactured muzzle loading inlines and not way back when!
Again FWIW
Dave.....JW
JW,
The title came about watching the Outdoor channel. I kept hearing CVA is just a better gun. So I decided to take it upon myself to find out compared to the other manufactures. Early in the thread Muley was getting really defensive and saying the thread is biased or something like that. Now you got MD back who doesn't even know what CVA recommends or the safety consequences of not following the correct load data.
So like you stated above, it's not a fair test at all for CVA. Out of all the Muzzleloaders that are being tested the CVA is the only one that you cant take out of the box and reliably shoot BH209. So right off the bat, the breech plug is not a very good ignition source.
Secondly, when you do order a better breech plug like BH209 compatible, when that plug comes back it doesn't fit the gun. You need a tool or pliers to properly get the breech plug to fit the gun. Now all of a sudden the breech plug is no longer tool less. And you also need to use o rings or adjust head spacing another way im not familiar with yet for cleanliness.
Another problem is the barrel threads in the Bergara barrel. They seem to be shallow and weak. Im sending this barrel to a highly known/respected rifle company to check these out for me. It seems like I understand why such a long threaded breech plug now.
Another problem is when the MR is scoped. You really cant safely use the hammer system. I think a fix would be a shorter scope and I have not done that yet. There are so many things against this gun compared to others it will not be tested with the other guns.
JW,
Thanks for your post, I agree with just about everything. I will start a new thread with the other guns and probably name it why you shouldn't by a CVA. This $200.00 T/C impact is amazingly designed. Almost like an Omega in a break action. The T/C strike is ugly, but I love the breach plug design. And the Triumph has always been my favorite break open, but I think that's gonna change soon.