Pete, you have to find the perfect downed log to use. One thats not to wide that you have to hunch over in order to drop it off safely out the back, yet one thats not to narrow, it cuts into your thighs and makes your legs fall asleep. Before the camper, I used to make flat stone toilets because I was tired of the old fashion way. I always had to make sure the rocks wouldnt fall in when I sat down