i'm sure you will all be happy to hear this is my last post on this matter but here are some facts some are not aware of ? nosler reloading guide states that the .223 will perform on par with any 30/30 at a 100 yards the poster said he needs 125 yard performance i think that's close enough.berger states that the .223 is totally capable of taking deer at close to moderate ranges i think 125 yards is very moderate. they both also state that the .223 is a great choice for varmits as well which by the way he also wanted was a caliber for both deer and varmits it also states that it's a better choice for cost reasons compared to the .243 and other cartridges. i haven't seen one post that states any professional or scientific finding to contradict what i have stated but all a bunch of people who have there own opinions which by the way have no bases for there claims that it's a minimal cartridge! maybe there is a bunch of hunters here that can't shoot very well so they want a bigger cartridge just in case!?