Originally Posted by super_hunt54

I'm calling foul on that one Cal. At what point does one define hunting over shooting? My own personal belief is when one is completely and totally out of an animals awareness and senses boundaries and there is absolutely no way that animal could spot you, wind you, or have any way of knowing you are in his world, that becomes shooting. Archery, we go up in a tree, get in a blind, use scent control, and every other thing that's been thought of to FOOL those senses but those animals still have a HUGE chance of winding or seeing you or hearing you. (Anyone that says deer don't look up hasn't been in the woods). In firearms you are looking at around 400 yards or so for MOST big game. 600 for speed goats and those binocular eyes.

To me, hunting isn't just the "taking of game". It's also the woods craft and everything else involved to get within a reasonable range of an animal. The MAIN problem I have with a LOT of the "long range shooters" I have stated several times. Time factor for bullet flight and that animal's movement DURING that time can NOT be accounted for 100%. PERIOD. Animals move. Yes you can somewhat determine an animals posture and state of relaxation and can get a good idea about it's possible movements but the fact remains, you can NOT know if that deer is about to take a little step that would make that perfect shot you just sent turn into a gut shot. It happens.

In my own little opinion, you aren't matching wits with an animal if you are taking 700-1000+ yard shots on them. You are matching wits with yourself and your own personal boundaries for distance. They can't smell, see, or hear you at those distances so just how are you matching wits with them?

Fact is, there are just too many folks out there that believe that they have WAY more skill than they actually have. The comment about most folks against long range shots are "jealous" may apply to some but you can dang sure bet it doesn't apply to me. I was shooting long range before most of these guys on here were a gleam in their mammies eye and can still bang the gong at 1000 yards even being as old as dirt!

There is a pretty big difference between hunting and shooting and I'd pretty much bet that RR would agree with that statement. His own comment earlier about setting up 700+ yards off a field with a group of folks around there having a party and taking shots on deer would pretty much nail that opinion down don't ya think? Would you still call that "hunting" Cal or would you call that "shooting"?