Originally Posted by
BarnesAddict
Well what's the difference between the two primers and if there is no difference, why is most everyone shooting magnum primers, including the "top shots"? There's been many, not just a handful, of people that have had problems using just WIN209 primers, yet when they switched to a magnum primer, their problems went away. Although Western states that regular 209 primers will ignite BH, why then do they recommend magnum primers?
But they're all bad breech plugs, right???
The magnum primer is hotter and "can" provide higher velocities. Even the difference between F209A and CM's show different velocities that other's have shown, yet still provide identical group sizes at identical ranges. A couple reports have shown that the CCI209M will actually provide a flatter trajectory over the Federal 209M.
As far as your testing, what procedures did you use to eliminate variables, such as bullet seating force? Bullet seating pressure on BH will change the velocity, it can also affect other loose propellants velocities. Were all your primers, including the magnum primers ringed like those in your photo?
Like I originally stated in my very first post.........
I am not sure everyone is using Mag primers. If you were to call Western they would tell you they recommend a Mag primer and opening the flash hole to .035 because of the breech plugs on the market. And yes for many years the real problem was in the BP design, to the point that Western contracted to have BH friendly plugs built for CVA rifles. If you have a breech plug designed to shoot BH then the Mag primer is a waste beside the fact that it will wear your BP much faster than a cooler primer.
Those people shooting a LRMP have already proved the fact that a Mag shotgun primer is not needed to get BH to ignite properly. Ron has conducted several tests in sub zero weather and pretty much proved the same thing. The military contracts brought about Mag shotgun primers to assure ignition of shotgun shells in Arctic like conditions.
Those that are having problems with W209 ignition probably do not have a BH modified plug - hence Westerns recommendation to use Mags.
The testing I did was not scientific for sure - but everything was done the same from shot-to-shot. Plus I should mention it was not the first time I did the same test nor was it the last time.
My primers were not ringed - if you look at the picture I think you can see that. Those are primers that have been shot in the pictured rifle.
Here is another set of primers shot from another rifle... They appear pretty clean to me also, but different rifle - different BP and bolt.
Even then was does the ring mean? Shotgun primers have a very wide tolerance in sizes. They do not have to be held to a tight tolerance to fit a shotgun shell. The European shot gun primers even have a wider tolerance, but still work just fine here in the states.
I think - but do not know for sure the
lot number of W209 primers that GM was shooting may have been just a bit short in length allowing some gas escape resulting in the soot rings you are seeing. Still has nothing to do with the ignition of BH. The W209 provides way heated gas than is necessary for the ignition of BH if the plug is correct and clean.
If you look at this pic you can see the tolerances for shotgun primers are all over the board.
In all of this all I am saying is you don't need Mag primers if your breech plug is designed to shoot BH. If you choose to shoot Mag primers, that is really your choice, nothing you need to defend at all. We all make personal choices...