And really, my point was that in today's climate, $500 isn't going to get you much of a rifle. Definitely isnt enough to get you a "good" rifle that's ready to shoot. (Still need the scope). Seen it too many times, people have some change in their pocket,Maury the first thing they an afford, and then wish they would have saved the extra $200 and got something they really wanted. Uilty of it myself. I have a weatherby vanguard S2 25-05 ($500 gun) with a zeiss scope on it that I haven't even fired. Wish I woulda just saved for the MK V