I don' t doubt those results at all, Lhook, but there is something else to consider. In high doe areas, a spike that is born late (June, July, or August) may not have been a spike had it been born earlier. The spikes that have late birthdays could be spikes only because they are less mature than the others. Once they catch up the following year they could very well be competitive with the other bucks that were born the same year.