250gr shockwaves in my 3 .50 cals plus 90 grain of loose powder = dead deer200gr shockwave in my .45 cal plus 90grain loose powder = dead deerI am shooting the bonded ones and don't like them as much as the other, but couldn't find any of the non bonded ones ones last yr, and then got more of the bonded in my stocking. The bonded will drop the deer no issue, but the bonded seem to zip through deer and leave a small exit hole.