stumble jumper...it was measuer with a range finder...i believe 547 with a 243....shot until the deer was hit and it hit the spine way in the back because of the wind..2 deer shot out of luck like that with a 243...they were both by the same spot and shot from the same spot...i didnt beleive them...they took me to their spot and showed me the gut pile....its not long range shooting i totally agree....its senseless...having a deer come back lookin like swiss cheese....and if the deer runs even at them extreme ranges they dump lead on them until it falls...if it doesnt fall they dont go after it( you can see hundreds of yards around and theres guys everywhere so they can see a bit of land...) i think its just stupid....and i know that the bigger round wont bring home more meat...the kid surely doesnt see it that way...but he doesnt think of their style of hunting as a normal person does...they think its how its done and call it fun.....thats not my cup of tea.......