I use hoppes, but only in my centerfire rifles. Grew up with the stuff. I have started using the gunslick foaming bore cleaner and then finishing with hoppes. That has seemed to cut my cleaning time. As for muzzleloading I use the tc17 products. Never takes too long. Use the foam and let it soak, clean the breech plug, and then clean the barrel with the tc17 solvent. Patches always come out clean. I like BH better. I think a lot of it is the no swab between shots. I shoot atleast 30 times a session though.