I have a Marlin 25MN that holds 1" at 100. Also shot my ex father-in-law' s Marlin that did the same. However, I had a chance to shoot a Ruger 77/17 the other day and if I hadn' t have seen it with my own eyes I wouldn' t have believed it. The group was an honest half inch at 100 yards. It was a calm day so I wonder how the wind affects it. I am slowly coming around to the 17 HMR especially since LA is being gracious enough to let us shoot crows now. Oh, for those of you that shoot the 17 and have shot the 22 mag, does the 17 seem a little quieter to you or was it just my ears playing tricks on me?