BIG DONNIE BRASCO i agree with your posts.. everything changes when that deer is 20 yards away. even more so at 30 and 40 yards. its hard to duplicate that with practice. buck fever sets in and epinephrine pumps through your body those fist size groups will be hubcap size. at 20-30 yards a fist size grouping should be a little smaller. most of my 3 shot groups are touching at 20 yards. but i practice out to 60 yards so a 30 yard shots become chip shots. theres so many variables in bowhunting and a leaf or a unseen twig at 30 yards will cripple animals. i think as a hunter you owe it to your prey for a humane kill and bowhunting is about getting as close as you can. in woods and cover i limit my shots to under 30 and if you look out west in the plains with pronghorns people take 50 yards shots or more. circumstances and your individual ability should ultimately decide on the shot